Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Longcol 592]

6 hours ago, Car Boot said:

The best thing the UK has done this century is to Leave the fading, out of date, twentieth century construct, the EU.

Remind me which century the UK construct dates from...................................

[L00b 441]

13 hours ago, RJRB said:

Thought Deutsche Bank were similarly tarnished

As are HSBC, RBS and a whole host of other UK banks and companies (and banks & companies from other countries -EU27 and not- too, for sure...but the most represented country in the leak is the UK).

 

What the FinCen leak shows, is how much of a money laundering turnplate the UK has long been and still is. It is one of the main smoking guns about the influence which Putin & assorted other kleptocrats' wield in the West, particularly in the UK. $2trillions' worth of influence. Goes a long way to explain why Tory governments have deliberately looked the other way about Russians for years. 

 

That doesn't detract from the point you were replying to: it's significantly harder to launder money in the EU-€zone, and never less so than after the EU AML Directive V (2018/843/EU) that came into force on 01 January 2020 , so any assets getting transferred from the UK to <anywhere in EU27, but particularly the €zone, including Frankfurt in Germany> are much more likely to be the squeaky-clean ones. Can't see much point in shifting dodgy assets into a much-more-tightly-regulated financial market, can you? In that context, that FinCen leak could also explain -in part- the UK's do-or-die intent to Brexit before end 2020.

 

Nor does it detract from the earlier, original point: for all the tax-avoiding, money-laundering and other toxic asset-trading wrongdoings of big and not-so-big UK banks over <decades and longer>, a non-trivial amount of economic activity was performed in the UK managing and trading these assets, generating a correspondingly non-trivial added value -at least some of which greasing the wheels of local/domestic commerce, with a portion ending up as revenue to the Exchequer (according to government accounts, long showing the City as a major source of annual tax contributions).

 

Shifting these assets to Frankfurt means their managing and trading will now get done in Frankfurt. Whereby Germany gets to enjoy the added value.

 

There's nothing partisan about that asset shifting, nor was there anything partisan about predicting it as a consequence of Brexit in 2015/2016, nor is there anything partisan in pointing at it happening now: it is (always was) an inevitable consequence of dropping FOM from the EU-UK relationship, because services passporting stems from FOM.

 

Look, Brexit is done, and the chips are falling where they do, both as they were predicted and not. Realistically, the UK is not rejoining any time soon, whether as a Union or individually as bit-States. So now what?

Edited September 24, 2020 by L00b

[Car Boot 10]

10 hours ago, Longcol said:

Remind me which century the UK construct dates from...................................

The countries of the UK are not an artificial capitalist inspired twentieth century construct, but an organic group of nation states that predate capitalism, the industrial revolution, world wars...

 

It just doesn't make any sense to show loyalty to a trading bloc which since its beginning has been envious and jealous of organic nations.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Car Boot

[RJRB 684]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

As are HSBC, RBS and a whole host of other UK banks and companies (and banks & companies from other countries -EU27 and not- too, for sure...but the most represented country in the leak is the UK).

 

What the FinCen leak shows, is how much of a money laundering turnplate the UK has long been and still is. It is one of the main smoking guns about the influence which Putin & assorted other kleptocrats' wield in the West, particularly in the UK. $2trillions' worth of influence. Goes a long way to explain why Tory governments have deliberately looked the other way about Russians for years. 

 

That doesn't detract from the point you were replying to: it's significantly harder to launder money in the EU-€zone, and never less so than after the EU AML Directive V (2018/843/EU) that came into force on 01 January 2020 , so any assets getting transferred from the UK to <anywhere in EU27, but particularly the €zone, including Frankfurt in Germany> are much more likely to be the squeaky-clean ones. Can't see much point in shifting dodgy assets into a much-more-tightly-regulated financial market, can you? In that context, that FinCen leak could also explain -in part- the UK's do-or-die intent to Brexit before end 2020.

 

Nor does it detract from the earlier, original point: for all the tax-avoiding, money-laundering and other toxic asset-trading wrongdoings of big and not-so-big UK banks over <decades and longer>, a non-trivial amount of economic activity was performed in the UK managing and trading these assets, generating a correspondingly non-trivial added value -at least some of which greasing the wheels of local/domestic commerce, with a portion ending up as revenue to the Exchequer (according to government accounts, long showing the City as a major source of annual tax contributions).

 

Shifting these assets to Frankfurt means their managing and trading will now get done in Frankfurt. Whereby Germany gets to enjoy the added value.

 

There's nothing partisan about that asset shifting, nor was there anything partisan about predicting it as a consequence of Brexit in 2015/2016, nor is there anything partisan in pointing at it happening now: it is (always was) an inevitable consequence of dropping FOM from the EU-UK relationship, because services passporting stems from FOM.

 

Look, Brexit is done, and the chips are falling where they do, both as they were predicted and not. Realistically, the UK is not rejoining any time soon, whether as a Union or individually as bit-States. So now what?

As you may have gathered from past comments I am no supporter of Brexit and believe it to be the most stupid act of self harm for a number of obvious reasons and some that will become apparent in due course.

I have seen no evidence of our preparedness for what is about to happen either on the part of the government or within companies who will have to deal with tariffs,transport and red tape issues.

We have gifted our world position as a leading financial centre to Frankfurt and this was always a probability.

However,to suggest that the U.K. based banking system is or was any different to other banks around the world is naive.

Financial and banking scandals will continue because they are masters at circumventing controls in the interests of profit.

If the major financial centre of Europe is Frankfurt then the dirty money will follow.

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, RJRB said:

As you may have gathered from past comments I am no supporter of Brexit and believe it to be the most stupid act of self harm for a number of obvious reasons and some that will become apparent in due course.

I have seen no evidence of our preparedness for what is about to happen either on the part of the government or within companies who will have to deal with tariffs,transport and red tape issues.

We have gifted our world position as a leading financial centre to Frankfurt and this was always a probability.

However,to suggest that the U.K. based banking system is or was any different to other banks around the world is naive.

Financial and banking scandals will continue because they are masters at circumventing controls in the interests of profit.

If the major financial centre of Europe is Frankfurt then the dirty money will follow.

You are mixing the actors (banks), the venues (cities) and the plays (financial services) in the above, whilst glossing -deliberately or not- over the British Overseas Territory character of Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands, <etc> that were, and remain, instrumental to money laundering, and all of which were always significantly easier to access from London, than from Paris, Frankfurt, New York, Tokyo <etc>...

 

...and shall remain so, now that London is escaping the EU's latest anti money laundering legislation, designed to hinder and sever ties still further with tax havens on the EU's black list (established 2015) and which includes -guess which Carribbean BOTs- amongst others.

 

Much less a case of naivety, than pointing some inconvenient truths. But you don't have to be personally embarrassed by them, the situation is hardly your fault or doing - nor, for that matter, the fault or doing of those taken in by the Leave propaganda.

[melthebell 862]

2 hours ago, Car Boot said:

The countries of the UK are not an artificial capitalist inspired twentieth century construct, but an organic group of nation states that predate capitalism, the industrial revolution, world wars...

 

And the whole problem that caused this brexit farce is we still think we are "great" and in charge of the world like back then, trouble is the worlds moved on...just not us

[Litotes 63]

21 hours ago, Litotes said:

Can we have some evidence of that please or is this just another of your ill thought-out unsubstantiated rants?

At the moment, it only looks to have  a down side with no apparent benefits...

No evidence then... thought not.

[RJRB 684]

11 hours ago, L00b said:

You are mixing the actors (banks), the venues (cities) and the plays (financial services) in the above, whilst glossing -deliberately or not- over the British Overseas Territory character of Bermuda, the British Virgin Islands, <etc> that were, and remain, instrumental to money laundering, and all of which were always significantly easier to access from London, than from Paris, Frankfurt, New York, Tokyo <etc>...

 

...and shall remain so, now that London is escaping the EU's latest anti money laundering legislation, designed to hinder and sever ties still further with tax havens on the EU's black list (established 2015) and which includes -guess which Carribbean BOTs- amongst others.

 

Much less a case of naivety, than pointing some inconvenient truths. But you don't have to be personally embarrassed by them, the situation is hardly your fault or doing - nor, for that matter, the fault or doing of those taken in by the Leave propaganda.

Not personally embarrassed at all.

I might be if I was an employee within the financial world who had taken substantial earnings and bonuses in any number of dubious and unethical schemes.

All that you are arguing is that a particular bank or financial institution  is more culpable than another .

All banks will continue to pursue schemes to drive profit for themselves and their shareholders .

Self regulation is the name of the game until such time as their reckless dealings results in a Lehman style meltdown and the taxpayers are left to pick up the pieces.

https://www.worldfinance.com/banking/deutsche-banks

Edited September 24, 2020 by RJRB

[Car Boot 10]

6 hours ago, melthebell said:

And the whole problem that caused this brexit farce is we still think we are "great" and in charge of the world like back then, trouble is the worlds moved on...just not us

Completely out of touch with why most people voted to Leave the EU.

 

It was nothing to do with empire, colonialism or imperialism.

 

Everything to do with Brexit voters and Brexit voting areas being 'left behind' (not permitted to share in the economic benefits of a massive capitalist trading bloc) whilst within the EU.

 

If being a member of the European Economic trading bloc hadn't advanced their interests in 43 years of membership, it was never going to advance their interests. 

 

So why stay? Only one reason to vote Remain - keep the rich people rich and hope some of those riches trickle down to the poor. No chance. Better Off Out.

[melthebell 862]

5 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

 

 

Everything to do with Brexit voters and Brexit voting areas being 'left behind' (not permitted to share in the economic benefits of a massive capitalist trading bloc) whilst within the EU.

so cut off yer nose to spite yer face and dont get any benefits of any trade w00p w00p sign me up batman

[Longcol 592]

1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

Completely out of touch with why most people voted to Leave the EU.

 

It was nothing to do with empire, colonialism or imperialism.

 

Everything to do with Brexit voters and Brexit voting areas being 'left behind' (not permitted to share in the economic benefits of a massive capitalist trading bloc) whilst within the EU.

 

If being a member of the European Economic trading bloc hadn't advanced their interests in 43 years of membership, it was never going to advance their interests. 

 

So why stay? Only one reason to vote Remain - keep the rich people rich and hope some of those riches trickle down to the poor. No chance. Better Off Out.

Mainly as a result of Tory austerity - although it's easier to blame it on "foreigners".

[Longcol 592]

On 23/09/2020 at 18:35, altus said:

As well as a border down the Irish Sea, it looks like we'll be getting one in Kent - Lorry drivers will face de-facto Brexit border in Kent, Gove confirms.

 

"Brexit was supposed to turn the UK into an economic superman, but all we have ended up with are more clerks in Kent"