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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

 

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

Message added by Vaati

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And it still makes sense to stay in for economic and trading reasons.

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It looks like things are going from bad to worse for the EU.  Now the Polish Prime Minister is accusing the EU of blackmail over the payment of covid 19 related funds.  We should all be lighting candles for the Polish people again. Thank goodness the UK are out and are an independent sovereign nation again.  

 

POLEXIT

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1 hour ago, West 77 said:

It looks like things are going from bad to worse for the EU.  Now the Polish Prime Minister is accusing the EU of blackmail over the payment of covid 19 related funds.

 

We should all be lighting candles for the Polish people again.

Indeed, they overwhelmingly approve of the EU, and value their EU membership.

 

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Thank goodness the UK are out and are an independent sovereign nation again.  

 

POLEXIT

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58955375

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has repeatedly insisted the country has no plans to leave the union.

"We should not be spreading lies about Polish Polexit"

 

... but don't let the Polish PM stop you trying :hihi: :loopy:

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14 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Indeed, they overwhelmingly approve of the EU, and value their EU membership.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58955375

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has repeatedly insisted the country has no plans to leave the union.

"We should not be spreading lies about Polish Polexit"

 

... but don't let the Polish PM stop you trying :hihi: :loopy:

He also said, "Poland will not be intimidated"

https://www.euronews.com/2021/10/19/watch-live-meps-debate-eu-poland-legal-crisis

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22 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Indeed, they overwhelmingly approve of the EU, and value their EU membership.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58955375

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has repeatedly insisted the country has no plans to leave the union.

"We should not be spreading lies about Polish Polexit"

 

... but don't let the Polish PM stop you trying :hihi: :loopy:

All very amusing. No UK Prime Minister had any plans to leave the EU before the 2016 EU referendum.  UK bookies always had the UK as comfortable favourites to stay in the EU.

 

POLEXIT

 

ITALEXIT

 

HUEXIT

 

FREXIT

Edited by West 77

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3 minutes ago, West 77 said:

All very amusing. No UK Prime Minister had any plans to leave the EU before the 2016 EU referendum.  UK bookies always had the UK as comfortable favourites to stay in the EU.

 

POLEXIT

 

ITALEXIT

 

HUEXIT

 

FREXIT

You forgot GREXIT.

 

It's notable that none of them have shown any sign of actually happening or even being put to a vote.

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2 minutes ago, West 77 said:

All very amusing. No UK Prime Minister had any plans to leave the EU before the 2016 EU referendum.  UK bookies always had the UK as comfortable favourites to stay in the EU.

 

POLEXIT

 

ITALEXIT

 

HUEXIT

 

FREXIT

I’m not sure why you are so interested in the composition of the EU now that a Brexit agreement has been negotiated...supposedly.

Still its good to see that you continue to consider the consequences,and one will be that any other country will think long and hard when they see the reality  of leaving the EU.

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3 hours ago, West 77 said:

It looks like things are going from bad to worse for the EU.  Now the Polish Prime Minister is accusing the EU of blackmail over the payment of covid 19 related funds.  We should all be lighting candles for the Polish people again. Thank goodness the UK are out and are an independent sovereign nation again.  

 

POLEXIT

The Polish Prime Minister backed himself into a corner that he now can’t get out of.
 

Law & Justice’s populism gradually morphed into ultranationalist initiatives that recently culminated into having a kangaroo court defer community law to Polish law. Which is a camel back-breaking straw for the EU, hence suspension of EU funding.
 

Now Morawiecki doesn’t know how to put the fire out, and he knows he has to, because EU membership enjoys an 80% approval rate in Poland.

 

Polexit? Law & Justice Partyexit, more like.
 

It’s nearly as funny to watch, as the Tories over the Protocol.

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10 hours ago, L00b said:

The Polish Prime Minister backed himself into a corner that he now can’t get out of.
 

Law & Justice’s populism gradually morphed into ultranationalist initiatives that recently culminated into having a kangaroo court defer community law to Polish law. Which is a camel back-breaking straw for the EU, hence suspension of EU funding.
 

Now Morawiecki doesn’t know how to put the fire out, and he knows he has to, because EU membership enjoys an 80% approval rate in Poland.

 

Polexit? Law & Justice Partyexit, more like.
 

It’s nearly as funny to watch, as the Tories over the Protocol.

The Polish PM is simply backing is own domestic judges who question that EU law should over rule Polish law.  It all about sovereignty which was the main reason the UK electorate voted to leave the EU. I doubt very much 80% of Polish people believe EU law should take precedence over Polish law. Poland are a proud nation.

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38 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The Polish PM is simply backing is own domestic judges who question that EU law should over rule Polish law.  It all about sovereignty which was the main reason the UK electorate voted to leave the EU. I doubt very much 80% of Polish people believe EU law should take precedence over Polish law. Poland are a proud nation.

It isn’t.
 

Every EU member state is, and always was, sovereign.
 

What every EU member state did, on acceding membership, was to pool some amount of sovereignty with the others, in fields of legal competence required to make the club work: trade, finance, working rules, <etc>
 

It’s not a coercive system, it is based 100% on wilful consent: no country was ever compelled to join the EU (i.e. accept this pooling of sovereignty), no country is ever compelled to stay in it (as the UK just demonstrated).

 

The flip side is that, like any club, it has rules, that must be adhered to.
 

A fundamental rule since the very first day, is that community law has primacy over national law in those fields of competence I mentioned above. It always did, even before the Maastricht Treaty, otherwise the club can’t work.

 

Another fundament rule, is that if you breach the rules, and continue to do so well past warning to unbreach them, eventually there are sanctions. A country can choose to not breach the rules and avoid those sanctions, either by adhering to the rules, or by exiting the jurisdiction altogether (the EU).

 

(of course, there is a parallel flipside, well obvious after all these consequences threads, which is that leaving the EU/club, means not being allowed into the club nor using its facilities anymore, irrespective of the rippling consequences for the ex-member…hey, it’s a members club, not a charity 😉)

 

But Poland has decided to breach the rules without exiting. So now the sanctions start. Guess what: Poland can no more have its cake and eating it, than the UK could. Who could have guessed? 

 

The Polish PM can shag his flag as fervently as the most die-hard no-deal Leave voter: ain’t going to make a blind bit of difference to the fact that the current will of the Polish people is to stay in the EU and that, to do so, the Polish PM must restore the primacy of community law the same as it’s been for the last 17 years.
 

The alternative is, starved of EU cash overnight, then EU support and services, then (…) as sanctions mount over time, Poland starts rapidly coming off at the socio-economic seams because, notwithstanding its supercharged economic development in those last 17 years,  it is still a small and very fragile economy.
 

There is no blackmail whatsoever: Poland is completely free to leave the EU and take its chances. But it isn’t owed a free meal if it does, anymore than the UK was. Hard choices, hard consequences, hey-ho.
 

I’ll hazard that you understand all that well, by now. If not, then really you should. Your getting hold of those sunlit uplands and unicorns depends on it.

Edited by L00b

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18 minutes ago, L00b said:

It isn’t.
 

Every EU member state is, and always was, sovereign.
 

What every EU member state did, on acceding membership, was to pool some amount of sovereignty with the others, in fields of legal competence required to make the club work: trade, finance, working rules, <etc>
 

It’s not a coercive system, it is based 100% on wilful consent: no country was ever compelled to join the EU, no country is ever compelled to stay in it. As the UK just demonstrated.

 

The flip side is that, like any club, it has rules, that must be adhered to.
 

A fundamental rule since the very first day, is that community law has primacy over national law in those fields of competence I mentioned above. It always did, even before the Maastricht Treaty, otherwise the club can’t work.

 

Another fundament rule, is that if you breach the rules, there are sanctions. A country can choose to not breach the rules and avoid those sanctions, either by adhering to the rules, or by exiting the jurisdiction altogether (the EU).

 

(of course, there is a parallel flipside, well obvious after all these consequences threads, is that leaving the EU/club, means not being allowed into the club nor using its facilities anymore, irrespective of the ripple consequences for the ex-member…hey, it’s a members club, not a charity 😉)

 

But Poland has decided to breach the rules without exiting. So now the sanctions start. Guess what: Poland can no more have its cake and eating it, than the UK could.
 

Who could have guessed? 

 

The Polish PM can shag his flag as fervently as the most die-hard no-deal Leave voter: ain’t going to make a blind bit of difference to the fact that the current will of the Polish people is to stay in the EU and that, to do so, the Polish PM must restore the primacy of community law the same as it’s been for the last 17 years.
 

The alternative is, starved of EU cash overnight, then services, then (…) as sanctions mount, Poland starts rapidly coming off at the socio-economic seams because, notwithstanding its supercharged economic development in those last 17 years,  it is still a very small and fragile economy.
 

There is no blackmail whatsoever: Poland is completely free to leave the EU and take its chances. But it isn’t owed a free meal if it does, anymore than the UK was.
 

I’ll hazard that you understand all that well, by now. If not, then really you should. Your getting hold of those sunlit uplands and unicorns depends on it.

The issue is the Polish judiciary believe the EU have exceeded the agreed legal powers granted by member countries in the various treaties over the years.  

 

Of course it's blackmail because no member state can leave the EU overnight. The UK were never given a free meal or expected a free meal during its time as a member of the EU.

Edited by West 77

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9 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The issue is the Polish judiciary believe the EU have exceeded the agreed legal powers granted by member countries in the various treaties over the years.

The Disturbing Campaign Against Poland’s Judges:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/disturbing-campaign-against-polish-judges/605623/

 

The Collapse of Judicial Independence in Poland:

https://judicature.duke.edu/articles/the-collapse-of-judicial-independence-in-poland-a-cautionary-tale/

 

 

Once again, you highlight that you really don't have a clue what's going on!

 

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