Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Dromedary 166]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

See the AMP - off the parkway for a great example.

 

(AMRC, Nuclear AMRC*, Rolls-Royce ABCF, TWI, McClaren, CTI, etc. etc. etc.)

 

it's been a huge success.

 

*that's right, not one, but two HVM Catapult centres!

Where can I buy one? 

 

Quote from here;

 

https://www.centreforcities.org/reader/parks-and-innovation-lessons-from-sheffields-advanced-manufacturing-park/the-performance-of-the-amp-in-sheffield-city-region-and-beyond/

 

"In terms of employment, the impact on Sheffield City Region’s economy is modest. Only 499 private sector advanced manufacturing jobs are on the site, a small share of the Sheffield City Region’s overall advanced manufacturing employment of 15,659. The AMP accounts for only 3 per cent of all the Sheffield City Region’s advanced manufacturing and engineering jobs."

 

 

Quote

Sheffield Airport site became the AMP-overflow, now hosting Factory2050, and Boeing - they're doing fantastic work!

Wasn't the land also sold for £1 as well. A great return for millions of EU money invested.

 

Quote

This is all very much something that Sheffield should be proud of. And yes, there are thousands of well paid jobs.

 

Thanks EU!

As you say all are well paid jobs that need a high standard of education and qualifications and not for the average person who may have been unemployed.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Dromedary

[L00b 441]

4 hours ago, Dromedary said:

And where did that EU money come from in the first place?

EU28 taxpayers, of course.

 

Or did you think the UK was the only net contributor to the EU budget during its membership?

 

Let’s not revisit this tired old canard, please. It’s been 6 years for God’s sake 🙄

4 hours ago, Dromedary said:

How many of those infrastructure project succeeded in doing what they claimed they would if they received funding. Its all well and good funding projects but do they actually make as much difference as claimed. For instance Sheffield has had lots of funding from the EU for projects supposedly to create 1000s of extra jobs and help the community and with the amount of extra jobs promised there should by now be full employment in Sheffield.

 

Sheffield Airport was just one classic failure in a list of many. As it points out here a lot of the problems with extra funding to keep it afloat was because of the EU and its competition policy. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2001/nov/21/guardiansocietysupplement3

 

Then we had the failed high speed broadband project which the EU wanted a refund on.

 

Then there is this.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36420415

Did I claim or argue somewhere, that every last € of EU funding ever spent anywhere was well or wisely spent?
 

No?

So, er…what’s your argument, exactly? 

[Litotes 63]

2 hours ago, Dromedary said:

Where can I buy one? 

 

Quote from here;

 

https://www.centreforcities.org/reader/parks-and-innovation-lessons-from-sheffields-advanced-manufacturing-park/the-performance-of-the-amp-in-sheffield-city-region-and-beyond/

 

"In terms of employment, the impact on Sheffield City Region’s economy is modest. Only 499 private sector advanced manufacturing jobs are on the site, a small share of the Sheffield City Region’s overall advanced manufacturing employment of 15,659. The AMP accounts for only 3 per cent of all the Sheffield City Region’s advanced manufacturing and engineering jobs."

 

 

Wasn't the land also sold for £1 as well. A great return for millions of EU money invested.

 

As you say all are well paid jobs that need a high standard of education and qualifications and not for the average person who may have been unemployed.

Apparently more people are employed on that site now than were during the days of mining. The 499 figure is way off according to some reports... it is over 2500.

And loads of apprentices too, all with a high standard of education (good training), not high levels of qualification.

 

Nothing to stop unemployed going for apprenticeships (is there?, but I think they are aimed at school leavers who don't want A-levels or university.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Litotes

[Dromedary 166]

3 hours ago, L00b said:

EU28 taxpayers, of course.

 

Or did you think the UK was the only net contributor to the EU budget during its membership?

Just to point out a basic math mistake in that it didn't actually come from all the EU28 taxpayers. In terms of direct contributions only 10 members were actually net contributors and the rest were beneficiaries with where you are, Belgium, being one of them. So that's at least one positive outcome of Brexit!

 

[L00b 441]

 

Quote

Just to point out a basic math mistake in that it didn't actually come from all the EU28 taxpayers.

Of course EU money comes from the EU taxpayers: every EU member state makes direct contributions to the EU budget, always did.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/316691/eu-budget-contributions-by-country/

 

Where do these contributions of each EU country come from? From their respective  taxpayers, who else.

 

You’re mistaking contributions for the redistribution of these contributions,  under which some EU member states get back more from the EU budget than they put in, for levelling them up relative to the others. Classic Brexiter mistake.

 

I’m not in Belgium btw, I’m next door.

Edited January 27, 2022 by L00b

[L00b 441]

12 hours ago, Dromedary said:

Just to point out a basic math mistake in that it didn't actually come from all the EU28 taxpayers. In terms of direct contributions only 10 members were actually net contributors and the rest were beneficiaries with where you are, Belgium, being one of them. So that's at least one positive outcome of Brexit!

How do you figure that, given the UK spend to date on bringing Brexit about and catering to consequences ?
 

[note I’m talking pragmatic/factual consequences here, e.g. UK spend on customs infrastructure and IT, besides all the other regulatory and ex-EU agencies which it must replace, and has started to, out of UK taxpayers’ money]

Edited January 27, 2022 by L00b

[Dromedary 166]

4 hours ago, L00b said:

 

Of course EU money comes from the EU taxpayers: every EU member state makes direct contributions to the EU budget, always did.

True but that is before any rebates paid back as we dont get that money in advance. It's also a bit underhanded stating that, just like that £350 Million that was stated we give the EU on the brexit big red brexit bus was.

 

You conveniently missed out this bit as well:

 

"In terms of direct contributions only 10 members were actually net contributors and the rest were beneficiaries...."

 

Which is odd as you also said. "Or did you think the UK was the only net contributor to the EU budget during its membership?"

 

4 hours ago, L00b said:

You’re mistaking contributions for the redistribution of these contributions,  under which some EU member states get back more from the EU budget than they put in, for levelling them up relative to the others. Classic Brexiter mistake.

No mistake as I had already stated net contributors. The mistake is you didnt read it properly.

 

4 hours ago, L00b said:

I’m not in Belgium btw, I’m next door.

Good! Is there a Specsavers there.....

[Bargepole23 337]

23 hours ago, Dromedary said:

Where can I buy one? 

 

Quote from here;

 

https://www.centreforcities.org/reader/parks-and-innovation-lessons-from-sheffields-advanced-manufacturing-park/the-performance-of-the-amp-in-sheffield-city-region-and-beyond/

 

"In terms of employment, the impact on Sheffield City Region’s economy is modest. Only 499 private sector advanced manufacturing jobs are on the site, a small share of the Sheffield City Region’s overall advanced manufacturing employment of 15,659. The AMP accounts for only 3 per cent of all the Sheffield City Region’s advanced manufacturing and engineering jobs."

 

 

Wasn't the land also sold for £1 as well. A great return for millions of EU money invested.

 

As you say all are well paid jobs that need a high standard of education and qualifications and not for the average person who may have been unemployed.

Loads of apprentices at AMP firms, starting without the quals and gaining them through their employer.

[L00b 441]

On 27/01/2022 at 15:43, Dromedary said:

True but that is before any rebates paid back as we dont get that money in advance. It's also a bit underhanded stating that, just like that £350 Million that was stated we give the EU on the brexit big red brexit bus was.

 

You conveniently missed out this bit as well:

 

"In terms of direct contributions only 10 members were actually net contributors and the rest were beneficiaries...."

 

Which is odd as you also said. "Or did you think the UK was the only net contributor to the EU budget during its membership?"

 

No mistake as I had already stated net contributors. The mistake is you didnt read it properly.

Well, talk about shifting the goal post: you're changing continents here! 🙄

 

I did not miss anything out.

 

You asked "where do the EU contributions coming from".

 

I answered "EU28 taxpayers".

 

You then said "no, because net contributors" (#4434), which is plainly wrong.

 

So then I had to correct you, because net contributor or net recipient irrespective, every EU member state -ergo its tax payers- puts into the EU pot in the first place.

 

You'd like me to engage on the net contribution debate (like we haven't discussed that to death for the last 6 years!)

 

But I'm not bothered, because it's still a debate only to Brexiters with exceptionalist blinkers, i.e people who don't have the first bit of understanding about the EU and how it works, with an economics literacy to match, and these types aren't worth the time of day, because they don’t engage on the substance (if they did, there would be no debate about contributions, the debate would be about how to improve redistribution and its output).

 

Levelling up of members -including the poorest regions of net contributors- through budget redistribution, is how the EU always worked, since day 1.

 

If the UK had such a problem with that, maybe it shouldn’t have signed up to the club, but remained the “poor man of Europe”, as it then was. Funny those net contributions became a problem for the UK only once it stopped being that poor man, eh?

On 27/01/2022 at 15:43, Dromedary said:

Good! Is there a Specsavers there.....

Look who’s talking.

Edited January 28, 2022 by L00b

[sadbrewer 20]

On 27/01/2022 at 18:02, L00b said:

 Funny those net contributions became a problem for the UK only once it stopped being that poor man, eh?

 

The UK has never been a net beneficiary from the EU,  it has been a net contributor from moment one .

[L00b 441]

9 hours ago, sadbrewer said:

The UK has never been a net beneficiary from the EU,  it has been a net contributor from moment one .

It was a net beneficiary in 1975, but I’ll concede the point.

[sadbrewer 20]

3 hours ago, L00b said:

It was a net beneficiary in 1975, but I’ll concede the point.

Agreed ...just for the year of the referendum, although genuinely I have no idea why that should have been.