Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Delbow 686]

17 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

I can't help thinking that it would be cathartic for Brexiteers to admit that Brexit comes at a price even if you think it was a price worth paying. A thing doesn't have to be without any drawbacks to be worth doing, so how about a bit of honesty. Come on Brexiteers, there must be one amongst you who would be prepared to admit 'yeah, absent Brexit we wouldn't have the current difficulty getting petrol to the garages.' You'd still be allowed to think Brexit is a good thing.

It's going to be an exhausting couple of decades for some people, hyper-alert for negative effects of Brexit to blame on something else, never being able to admit to any downsides. I accepted long ago that there are bound to be some upsides to Brexit, you'd think some people would have been able to accept the reverse. 

[the_bloke 17]

On 28/09/2021 at 07:30, L00b said:

Nobody is blaming it all on Brexit.

I agree, and they shouldn't blame it all on Brexit. However it's clear that this has highlighted huge issues with the haulage industry in the UK, issues which have been coming for at least ten years with the problem of not retaining drivers in the industry. Some of these issues stem from poor conditions and pay in the job, which have been kept artificially low by putting the sticking plaster of foreign labour on the problem. Instead of the incremental market forces of supply and demand forcing employers to make the job better over the last decade (two decades?), cheap drivers from the EU were used instead.

 

Other issues seem to be the traditionally British poor bureaucracy and expense, such as slow and expensive driver training schemes, months to wait for tests at the test centre, the joy of DVLA and so on and generally shoddy resource management across the industry as a whole. That isn't a fault of Brexit, it's a fault of Britain.

 

A consequence of Brexit seems to be the sudden shock that employers can't pay people crap wages to do crap jobs anymore.

[Tony 10]

34 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

I agree, and they shouldn't blame it all on Brexit. However it's clear that this has highlighted huge issues with the haulage industry in the UK, issues which have been coming for at least ten years with the problem of not retaining drivers in the industry. Some of these issues stem from poor conditions and pay in the job, which have been kept artificially low by putting the sticking plaster of foreign labour on the problem. Instead of the incremental market forces of supply and demand forcing employers to make the job better over the last decade (two decades?), cheap drivers from the EU were used instead.

 

Other issues seem to be the traditionally British poor bureaucracy and expense, such as slow and expensive driver training schemes, months to wait for tests at the test centre, the joy of DVLA and so on and generally shoddy resource management across the industry as a whole. That isn't a fault of Brexit, it's a fault of Britain.

 

A consequence of Brexit seems to be the sudden shock that employers can't pay people crap wages to do crap jobs anymore.

Quoted for truth.

[L00b 441]

54 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

I agree, and they shouldn't blame it all on Brexit. However it's clear that this has highlighted huge issues with the haulage industry in the UK, issues which have been coming for at least ten years with the problem of not retaining drivers in the industry. Some of these issues stem from poor conditions and pay in the job, which have been kept artificially low by putting the sticking plaster of foreign labour on the problem. Instead of the incremental market forces of supply and demand forcing employers to make the job better over the last decade (two decades?), cheap drivers from the EU were used instead.

 

Other issues seem to be the traditionally British poor bureaucracy and expense, such as slow and expensive driver training schemes, months to wait for tests at the test centre, the joy of DVLA and so on and generally shoddy resource management across the industry as a whole. That isn't a fault of Brexit, it's a fault of Britain.

 

A consequence of Brexit seems to be the sudden shock that employers can't pay people crap wages to do crap jobs anymore.

Do not underestimate the relevance of cabotage to the issue, and its regulatory end for EU27 hauliers within the UK since 01/01/21 (due to Brexit; well, to the particular type of Brexit chosen by the UK government).

It *is* a major contributing factor to the current supply chain issues.
 

UK hauliers never needed to invest so much in human and capital equipment assets, when thousands of EU27 hauliers were picking loads at UK warehouses and delivering at UK supermarkets every day or so, between first coming into the UK with imported EU27 stuff and eventually getting back out to the EU27 with exported UK stuff.
 

You can try to blame UK hauliers now, but I bet you enjoyed the record low prices in supermarkets for years and years, and where’s your blame at them? Because in the end, it’s Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Morrison’s, etc. which shaped the supply chains based on cost differentials out of cabotage opportunities: UK hauliers were just competing with EU27 hauliers.

 

Cabotage (across the EU27) is also why HGV driver shortages are so much less of an issue anywhere else in the EU27. Including in Poland, which has a worse shortage of HGV drivers than the UK (in terms of driver numbers), but wherein supermarket shelves and petrol forecourts are still stocked just fine.

Edited September 29, 2021 by L00b

[L00b 441]

https://twitter.com/mac_puck/status/1442933754247319552?s=20

 

Far from a "shortage due to Covid" there were 56,000 MORE licenced UK HGV drivers in May 2021 (latest month for which data) than in October 2018

 

Interestingly, there were 2,856 MORE UK drivers with current DQC's in May 2021, after 14 months of Covid restrictions, than there were in January 2020, before it reached the UK.

 

Findings are cross-referenced to UK government data, with links supplied.

 

Well 🤔

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by L00b

[Carbuncle 0]

3 hours ago, L00b said:

Do not underestimate the relevance of cabotage to the issue, and its regulatory end for EU27 hauliers within the UK since 01/01/21 (due to Brexit; well, to the particular type of Brexit chosen by the UK government).

 

Any idea of the respective scales of the different effects? No cabotage rights seems like a huge Brexit-induced inefficiency and of course it is one that does not go away with improved pay and conditions within UK haulage.

[tzijlstra 11]

12 hours ago, L00b said:

You can try to blame UK hauliers now, but I bet you enjoyed the record low prices in supermarkets for years and years, and where’s your blame at them? Because in the end, it’s Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Morrison’s, etc. which shaped the supply chains based on cost differentials out of cabotage opportunities: UK hauliers were just competing with EU27 hauliers.

Pffff.... Brexit is Brexit! Who cares about stagflation and frictional unemployment! 

[Magilla 510]

33 minutes ago, West 77 said:

It's good news that as a consequence of leaving the EU our own government get to decide whether gene editing crops will be allowed in our own country. I await the result of the trials with interest.

Not so great for those laissez-faire customs checks on goods entering NI though :S

 

Brexit is ‘going badly,’ say Brits:

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-is-going-badly-say-brits-in-new-poll/

Edited September 30, 2021 by Magilla

[Tony 10]

20 hours ago, L00b said:

https://twitter.com/mac_puck/status/1442933754247319552?s=20

 

Far from a "shortage due to Covid" there were 56,000 MORE licenced UK HGV drivers in May 2021 (latest month for which data) than in October 2018

 

Interestingly, there were 2,856 MORE UK drivers with current DQC's in May 2021, after 14 months of Covid restrictions, than there were in January 2020, before it reached the UK.

 

Findings are cross-referenced to UK government data, with links supplied.

 

Well 🤔

 

Well indeed. So what exactly is going on if there are more drivers now than pre-Covid?

 

If that really is the situation it has the hallmark of a manufactured crisis. That opens up a whole other can of worms about who? And why?

 

Any thoughts?

Edited September 30, 2021 by Tony

[RollingJ 1,999]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

Well indeed. So what exactly is going on if there are more drivers now than pre-Covid?

 

If that really is the situation it has the hallmark of a manufactured crisis. That opens up a whole other can of worms about who? And why?

 

Any thoughts?

I would like a considered answer to that, as well.

[L00b 441]

40 minutes ago, Tony said:

Well indeed. So what exactly is going on if there are more drivers now than pre-Covid?

 

If that really is the situation it has the hallmark of a manufactured crisis. That opens up a whole other can of worms about who? And why?

 

Any thoughts?

This is the situation for licensed UK HGV drivers, according to the British government’s official figures.
 

All this does, is put the kibosh on the notion that the UK is short of drivers is because there weren’t examinations/qualifications, or not enough, during the 2020/21 Covid period.
 

What this does not, is equating ‘licensed UK HGV driver’ with ‘working as HGV driver’.

Edited September 30, 2021 by L00b

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 minutes ago, West 77 said:

I personally don't know anyone who thinks Brexit is going badly.  A poll consisting of six and half thousand people is meaningless. 

You hang around with idiots.

 

No country in Europe has food shortages. No country in europe has fuel shortages. Youre deluded.