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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

 

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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3 hours ago, ab6262 said:

goods entering the eu from uk now are not zero but the goods entering EU from far east and other areas are not zero necessarily depends on what it is, italy & spain for example have a bigger import tariff on shoes, trainers all footwear as they produce these type of goods and it is supposed to protect the home market.

as i said before some emerging nations like pakistan where i import a lot from has a very good GSP rate on certain items, also India, Africa and some middle east get almost zero rates. 

None of which has helped in JD Sports EU distribution problems, as a result of Brexit :?

 

Which nations has the UK has secured more favorable tariff rates than were enjoyed as EU members, on which products?

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1 hour ago, West 77 said:

You have the same mindset has the Luddites had at the start of the industrial revolution.  Brexit has always been a long term project meaning the tangible positive long term benefits will be enjoyed after years rather than a few months.  The biggest positive so far has been the huge success of the UK vaccine program that prove a sovereign nation outside the EU can benefit in a global World.  British entrepreneurs like Sir James Dyson were the exception and supported Brexit which the majority of big business didn't.  Big business also didn't support the abolition of the slave trade at the time for the same reasons big business didn't want the UK to leave the EU.  In one hundred years time history will judge the likes of Nigel Farage, Sir James Dyson and Tim Martin in the same was as the pioneers to abolish the same slave trade are judged today.  Britain has a long history of being World pioneers thanks to the likes of Thomas Clarkson , William Wilberforce and George Stephenson.  

 

 

I'm not even going to dignify this with... wait. OK, I am. LOL. 

39 minutes ago, apelike said:

I have tried but can find nothing to back up you claim that "Science funding in the UK is down enormously compared to before Brexit" and that is why I asked and maybe that why you also can't provide any.

 

None of your post of #2978 is able to backup the above either and is just about how you see it being anti-Brexit and all. As you have already stated and I also know Horizon 2020, now Horizon Europe is still active and the reason funding is down there is because of a drop of 40% in it applications for funding. All you have done in your post is to sidestep the issue and give your interpretation (hearsay) as to how the situation has or is progressing. You talk about Erasmus, student fees, International Development Funding and Universities shedding staff which has nothing to do with actual science funding. I agree it may have a knock on effect in scientific research but that a different matter.

You didn't do a good job googling then. 

 

https://lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=Is the UK still in the ERDF

 

https://lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=consequences of UK leaving erasmus%2B for research funding

 

https://lmgtfy.app/#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=UK International Development Fund impact on research

 

I'm not going to continue, as I genuinely can't be bothered trying to convince a brick of immoveable resistance. I sit on plenty (well sat, since my resignation) of boards at University level to know what is happening. You can dismiss that, but a sentence like: 

Quote

As you have already stated and I also know Horizon 2020, now Horizon Europe is still active and the reason funding is down there is because of a drop of 40% in it applications for funding.

doesn't particularly inspire confidence that you will get the point I am making as you are conflating three issues. Which is fine. 

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2 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

 

1. The ERDF is not a science based fund but a regional based one.

 

2. Erasmus may have been stopped in the UK but has been replaced by the Turing scheme and again is not a science based scheme.

 

3. The International Development Fund is also not a specific scientific based fund either. 

 

None of the above backs up your claim though that Science funding in the UK is down enormously compared to before Brexit.

 

 

2 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

I'm not going to continue, as I genuinely can't be bothered trying to convince a brick of immoveable resistance. I sit on plenty (well sat, since my resignation) of boards at University level to know what is happening. You can dismiss that, but a sentence like: 

doesn't particularly inspire confidence that you will get the point I am making as you are conflating three issues. Which is fine. 

I'm not conflating 3 issues though as all I am asking you is to explain one of those issues and how much scientific funding is actually down. You stated "enormously" and I am questioning that.

 

I will just leave you with this article about UK scientific research funding which states that funding has actually risen from £400 million in 2015 to over £1.2 billion in 2020 and some of that funding rise  has helped to produce a coronavirus vaccine for us and the world. 

 

https://www.ukcdr.org.uk/news-article/uk-science-and-research-key-to-lasting-impact-for-international-development/#:~:text=The impact of scientific research,£1.2 billion in 2020.&text=They will help stakeholders assess,provide guidance for future research.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, apelike said:

None of the above backs up your claim though that Science funding in the UK is down enormously compared to before Brexit.

 

I googled it, there were several tens of results all lamenting existing cuts and potential "multi billion pound" cuts to UK research unless the government changes course:

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-brexit-cuts-catastrophic-for-scientific-research-say-experts-50rrvv2pk

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-56587811

https://sciencebusiness.net/framework-programmes/news/uk-science-rises-against-looming-multi-billion-pound-cuts-research

https://thepienews.com/news/uuk-warn-of-potential-1bn-cut-to-science-and-research-funding/

 

Quote

I will just leave you with this article about UK scientific research funding which states that funding has actually risen from £400 million in 2015 to over £1.2 billion in 2020 and some of that funding rise  has helped to produce a coronavirus vaccine for us and the world. 

The vast majority of which came from the foreign aid budget, cut by £4bn :?
 

Edited by Magilla

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56767116

 

Another business on the ropes, with the company itself partly blaming Brexit, partly Covid.

 

Still, those on the dole will be happy to know that "the tangible positive long term benefits will be enjoyed after years rather than a few months"......whilst they struggle to feed their families.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Magilla said:

I googled it, there were several tens of results all lamenting existing cuts and potential "multi billion pound" cuts to UK research unless the government changes course:

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-brexit-cuts-catastrophic-for-scientific-research-say-experts-50rrvv2pk

Partial quote as its behind a paywall.... "Threatened post-Brexit cuts to the science budget...."

 

Quote

Partial quote: "The UK science funding body might have to absorb a cost of £2bn a year."

 

Quote

Partial quote: "Last week, science minister Amanda Solloway promised clarity on the proposed cuts “in due course”, while business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng, added discussions with treasury officials are “ongoing and we hope to get a satisfactory result.”

 

Quote

Partial quote: "The organisation is concerned that if this position is maintained, and if the department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is required to fund the costs of participation out of the existing science budget, it will amount to an effective cut of something in excess of £1bn.

 

Cant see anything in the above which states that science funding is down enormously compared to before Brexit. However they do include words such as threatened, might, proposed and effective cuts which is not the same as actual cuts. Some of those articles also acknowledge that this government are still deciding on what will happen to future funding as no decisions or details have yet been released.

 

So basically its mainly hearsay from those whose are worried as their income from this research is now reliant on government funding.

 

1 hour ago, Bargepole23 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-56767116

 

Another business on the ropes, with the company itself partly blaming Brexit, partly Covid.

Partial quote: "Mike Payne, the union's senior Wales and South West organiser, has had discussions with Kautext Textron management and said a "whole site closure" was being considered because of a "downturn in sales in the global market".

Edited by apelike

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, apelike said:

Partial quote as its behind a paywall.... "Threatened post-Brexit cuts to the science budget...."

 

...

Some have happened, the others I qualified with "potential".

 

They will happen unless the government changes course.

 

Quote

So basically its mainly hearsay from those whose are worried as their income from this research is now reliant on government funding.

LOL, didn't see that coming! :hihi: Maybe they're saying it because the threat is real :roll:

 

Regardless, the foreign aid budget has been cut, which covers a lot of the funding highlighted in your previous link.

 

2 hours ago, apelike said:

Partial quote: "Mike Payne, the union's senior Wales and South West organiser, has had discussions with Kautext Textron management and said a "whole site closure" was being considered because of a "downturn in sales in the global market".

That global market now includes the EU, who's auto manufacturers started removing UK suppliers from their supply chains some time ago.

Edited by Magilla

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Magilla said:

Some have happened, the others I qualified with "potential".

 

They will happen unless the government changes course.

 

LOL, didn't see that coming! :hihi: Maybe they're saying it because the threat is real :roll:

 

Regardless, the foreign aid budget has been cut, which covers a lot of the funding highlighted in your previous link.

So let's analyze the above.

 

We have...  "some have happened," without clarifying which ones, and some have "potential."

 

We have... "they will happen unless the government changes course."

 

We have... "the threat is real."

 

We have... "the foreign aid budget has been cut", which I agree with and that it will impact on scientific funding abroad but not the UK, which is about the only bit that has some truth to it. But... that does not take into account some of the new funding that has been proposed which will happen and is real but as yet is not sorted or finalised.

 

 

 

Edited by apelike

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, apelike said:

We have... "the foreign aid budget has been cut", which I agree with and that it will impact on scientific funding abroad but not the UK, which is about the only bit that has some truth to it.

Is that why you chose a link that highlights increased spending on UK research.... that is paid for by that aid budget? :loopy:

 

Your claim that " it will impact on scientific funding abroad but not the UK" is completely wrong.

 

Quote

But... that does not take into account some of the new funding that has been proposed which will happen and is real but as yet is not sorted or finalised.

None of it was detailed in the budget, and the Treasury has not made funding available.

 

Surely you mean "might happen", since none of it is yet sorted or finalised. :hihi:

 

 

Edited by Magilla

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4 hours ago, Magilla said:

Surely you mean "might happen", since none of it is yet sorted or finalised. :hihi:

No, I was taking a leaf out of your own book when you said in post #2995...."They will happen unless the government changes course." Perhaps you should also have said "might happen" as none of that is yet sorted or finalised either.... ;)

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, apelike said:

No, I was taking a leaf out of your own book when you said in post #2995...."They will happen unless the government changes course."

LOL :loopy:

 

Clearly you have failed to understand the meaning of the word "unless"! :hihi:

 

Quote

Perhaps you should also have said "might happen" as none of that is yet sorted or finalised either.... ;)

Sigh... the nuances of the English language... since my claim is qualified with "unless", that's implicit in the statement :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Magilla

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1 hour ago, Magilla said:

LOL :loopy:

 

Clearly you have failed to understand the meaning of the word "unless"! :hihi:

 

Sigh... the nuances of the English language... since my claim is qualified with "unless", that's implicit in the statement :thumbsup:

 

 

 

 

In other words the media informs us of nothing, it merely speculates, and that alone influences opinion.

 

Yes you're right about the power of language....

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