apelike   10 #2665 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, West 77 said: It was good to see the Police using the water cannon. Water cannons should be used on the UK mainland when lawless mobs go rioting or refuse to disperse when the police tell them to.  The mindset of those rioting in Belfast is the same as those seen rioting in Bristol and has nothing at all to with Brexit. Amazing as last time there were riots and the water cannon was used in NI it was in 2015 before the referendum and that had nothing to do with Brexit. This new wave is just an excuse by the anti brexiters to link it to Brexit as they are hard pressed to find any other excuses to say how bad Brexit has been so far or will be. Edited April 9, 2021 by apelike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RJRB Â Â 688 #2666 Posted April 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, apelike said: Amazing as last time there were riots and the water cannon was used in NI it was in 2015 before the referendum and that had nothing to do with Brexit. This new wave is just an excuse by the anti brexiters to link it to Brexit as they are hard pressed to find any other excuses to say how bad Brexit has been so far or will be. I think that if you read back through the posts since Dec 31st that you will find plenty of instances of the problems caused by Brexit,and you could trawl back further to try to find any benefits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Delbow   693 #2667 Posted April 9, 2021 Pretty much any complex decision is going to have negative and positive outcomes. You seem to think you're talking to a remain-at-all-costs fundamentalist - you're not. There will undoubtedly be benefits to leaving, as there would have been to remain. People who refuse to believe there can be negatives of Brexit (you and apelike, seemingly) and people who think there can only be negatives (Lib Dems) are equally ridiculous. If you want a religion, go to a place of worship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #2668 Posted April 9, 2021 29 minutes ago, Delbow said: Pretty much any complex decision is going to have negative and positive outcomes. You seem to think you're talking to a remain-at-all-costs fundamentalist - you're not. There will undoubtedly be benefits to leaving, as there would have been to remain. People who refuse to believe there can be negatives of Brexit (you and apelike, seemingly) and people who think there can only be negatives (Lib Dems) are equally ridiculous. Ahh, but I don't believe there can't be negatives though. It's just that some of the promised big ones such as an emergency budget, tax rises, inflation, mass unemployment and a lack of food and medicines as a result of Brexit have yet failed to materialise with any dire consequences to the general public.  29 minutes ago, Delbow said: If you want a religion, go to a place of worship. It's not necessary to go to a place of worship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
GabrielC Â Â 53 #2669 Posted April 9, 2021 The question I have about the Brexit saga is during the referendum we were told even if we voted leave we would still be in the Single Market and the Custom Union repeatedly by both sides. Roll on to Theresa Mays time this was dropped and the slogan ' Brexit means Brexit was pumped out by the government even though Mays deal would have the back stop to avoid an border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to me that was fair. But the deal was defeated a number of times but no real answers on what to do on the border issue. Given the unrest in Northern Ireland pulse the benefits to business surely it would have made more sense to stay in the Single Market and the Custom Union remember Norway have this arrangement yes I am aware the hard core Brexiteer would say no way but we need to face reality the EU is our nearest trading partner but the government seem L -bent on a US deal though Biden does not seem that keen on the idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #2670 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, GabrielC said: The question I have about the Brexit saga is during the referendum we were told even if we voted leave we would still be in the Single Market and the Custom Union repeatedly by both sides. Roll on to Theresa Mays time this was dropped and the slogan ' Brexit means Brexit was pumped out by the government even though Mays deal would have the back stop to avoid an border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to me that was fair. But the deal was defeated a number of times but no real answers on what to do on the border issue. Given the unrest in Northern Ireland pulse the benefits to business surely it would have made more sense to stay in the Single Market and the Custom Union remember Norway have this arrangement yes I am aware the hard core Brexiteer would say no way but we need to face reality the EU is our nearest trading partner but the government seem L -bent on a US deal though Biden does not seem that keen on the idea. It seems like you as well as many others on this thread seem to want a single market and a customs union just for the sake of sparing NI any problems. NI will always have problems despite Brexit as it is still a very troubled country and has had suffered from problems despite the GFA. This current lot of rioting is just an example and anyone can easily see it is being caused by opportunists who just wish to stir up trouble for the sake of it. Edited April 9, 2021 by apelike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest sibon   #2671 Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) . 3 minutes ago, apelike said: This current lot of rioting is just an example and anyone can easily see it is being caused by opportunists who just wish to stir up trouble for the sake of it. It was indeed.  It was caused by the opportunists who triggered our catastrophic hard Brexit. Edited April 9, 2021 by sibon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #2672 Posted April 9, 2021 1 minute ago, sibon said: It was indeed.  The opportunists who triggered our catastrophic hard Brexit. Why and how has it been catastrophic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RJRB Â Â 688 #2673 Posted April 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, apelike said: Why and how has it been catastrophic? Conversely why and how has it been a success? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
GabrielC   53 #2674 Posted April 9, 2021 36 minutes ago, apelike said: It seems like you as well as many others on this thread seem to want a single market and a customs union just for the sake of sparing NI any problems. NI will always have problems despite Brexit as it is still a very troubled country and has had suffered from problems despite the GFA. This current lot of rioting is just an example and anyone can easily see it is being caused by opportunists who just wish to stir up trouble for the sake of it. Northern Ireland is part of the Union not an country yes with an troubled past it took decades to get both sides to talk resulting in The Belfast Agreement. The rioting is not down to ' opportunists' but the DUP and loyalists encouraging their supporters to make petrol bombs and target anyone that does not agree with them. It is only a matter of time before an bomb goes astray and lands in an republican area then all hell will break lose. The bone of contention is the border the republicans want an open one the DUP want an hard one and certainly not happy about an border in the Irish sea when the UK was in the Single Market and Custom Union their was no border most were happy with that only the headline DUP was not. They thought Brexit would give them an hard border to keep the influence of the Republic out it has not turned out that way. My fear is this will get out of control and spread to the mainland you can not sweep Northern Ireland under the carpet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #2675 Posted April 9, 2021 29 minutes ago, RJRB said: Conversely why and how has it been a success? Nice straw man there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
hackey lad   3,950 #2676 Posted April 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, apelike said: Nice straw man there... I would call it dodging the question Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...