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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

 

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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11 minutes ago, altus said:

The UK-Japan deal removes privacy and data protections for UK citizens (not just with Japan, it allows UK data to be forwarded on to other countries - such as the US). It may also result in the UK losing data protection adequacy with the EU, meaning data UK businesses would lose work processing the data on EU citizens they currently do.

 

The CPTPP is likely to make the situation worse. What other things will we have to give up?

 

I do find it surprising that people who where so adamant that they don't want to be part of an organisation we spent over 40 years influencing to our benefit are so happy to join (and accept all the conditions of) one we had no part of defining.

My bold.

 

Go on, I'll ask?   

 

47 years we were part of the Common Market / EEC / EC / EU.   Please provide 4 examples, (one for each decade), where the UK directly influenced & change the minds of the 28 countries of the EU or influenced and / or changed the minds of the EU Commission and / or altered its policies, resulting in the benefits to the UK? 

 

Give us some details and dates?   You seem adamant we did influence them & there were benefits? 

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56 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

My bold.

 

Go on, I'll ask?   

 

47 years we were part of the Common Market / EEC / EC / EU.   Please provide 4 examples, (one for each decade), where the UK directly influenced & change the minds of the 28 countries of the EU or influenced and / or changed the minds of the EU Commission and / or altered its policies, resulting in the benefits to the UK? 

 

Give us some details and dates?   You seem adamant we did influence them & there were benefits? 

Here are three off the top of my head:

 

1) We kept Sterling andf did not join the Euro

 

2) Maggie Thatcher won us an annual £4 billion EU rebate, until Tony Blair gave it back

 

3) In 2007, the UK imposed a 5-year temporary ban on Romanian and Bulgarian citizens from living and working in the UK.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

My bold.

 

Go on, I'll ask?   

 

47 years we were part of the Common Market / EEC / EC / EU.   Please provide 4 examples, (one for each decade), where the UK directly influenced & change the minds of the 28 countries of the EU or influenced and / or changed the minds of the EU Commission and / or altered its policies, resulting in the benefits to the UK? 

 

Give us some details and dates?   You seem adamant we did influence them & there were benefits? 

In reality, it'd be easier and far shorter to list areas where the UK hasn't had significant influence.

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/07/09/british-influence-in-brussels-had-been-far-greater-than-recognised/

 

The EU, as it exists today, is in large part a direct result of UK influence!

 

 

Edited by Magilla

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12 hours ago, Baron99 said:

47 years we were part of the Common Market / EEC / EC / EU.   Please provide 4 examples, (one for each decade), where the UK directly influenced & change the minds of the 28 countries of the EU or influenced and / or changed the minds of the EU Commission and / or altered its policies, resulting in the benefits to the UK?

Dont most countries/people want the same thing?

So our cities and cities around the world suffer polution which is bad for people health, the UK and the EU have clean air standards.

But only a massive block like the EU can set cleaner standards for vehicle engines, which will continue after leaving the EU.

The UK can ask car manufactuers to have different standards for the UK only, but they may tell us where to go.

 

Seems sensible to me to convert to metric, we can choose metric or imperial, we need to convert properly.

 

Countries borders have been growing larger for 2,000 years

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11 hours ago, Magilla said:

In reality, it'd be easier and far shorter to list areas where the UK hasn't had significant influence.

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/07/09/british-influence-in-brussels-had-been-far-greater-than-recognised/

 

The EU, as it exists today, is in large part a direct result of UK influence!

 

 

Did they thank us for our influence? horse to water comes to mind.

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14 hours ago, altus said:

The UK-Japan deal removes privacy and data protections for UK citizens (not just with Japan, it allows UK data to be forwarded on to other countries - such as the US). It may also result in the UK losing data protection adequacy with the EU, meaning data UK businesses would lose work processing the data on EU citizens they currently do.

 

The CPTPP is likely to make the situation worse. What other things will we have to give up?

 

I do find it surprising that people who where so adamant that they don't want to be part of an organisation we spent over 40 years influencing to our benefit are so happy to join (and accept all the conditions of) one we had no part of defining.

The UK electorate voted to leave the European Union which is not the same organisation as the European Economic Community the UK voted to remain part of in 1975.  The CPTPP unlike the European Union is a partnership of 11 countries solely for trade purposes.  Since the UK officially left the European Union one year ago they have reached a trade agreement with the European Union bloc 27.  UK people were adamant to leave a political union which the EEC turned into.  The UK Government know all the conditions of being part of the CPTPP before they join therefore it is irrelevant the UK are not a finding member of the trade partnership.  Just for completeness, I'm not an international trade expert and don't know whether the UK would be better of negotiating individual bespoke deals with other countries rather than being involved in a bloc partnership such as the CPTPP.  

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13 hours ago, The Joker said:

Here are three off the top of my head:

 

1) We kept Sterling andf did not join the Euro

 

2) Maggie Thatcher won us an annual £4 billion EU rebate, until Tony Blair gave it back

 

3) In 2007, the UK imposed a 5-year temporary ban on Romanian and Bulgarian citizens from living and working in the UK.

 

 

 

 

Here are  three areas off the top of my head in which the UK Government failed to influence the EU.

 

1)  Not using the veto to block the Maastricht Treaty

2)  Not using the veto to block the Lisbon Treaty

3)  Not using the veto to stop eastern European countries joining 

Edited by West 77

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14 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Here are  three areas off the top of my head in which the UK Government failed to influence the EU.

 

1)  Not using the veto to block the Maastricht Treaty

2)  Not using the veto to block the Lisbon Treaty

3)  Not using the veto to stop eastern European countries joining 

Perhaps they thought they were good ideas? Particularly the latter.

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27 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Here are  three areas off the top of my head in which the UK Government failed to influence the EU.

 

1)  Not using the veto to block the Maastricht Treaty

2)  Not using the veto to block the Lisbon Treaty

3)  Not using the veto to stop eastern European countries joining 

Nonsense, how can these be failures when they were all policies supported by the UK government of the day?

 

Eastern European countries joining  was a signature policy of the UK government within the EU! :rolleyes:

 

The UK was the main advocate of the EU's eastern expansion and influenced the EU heavily in this area...

 

...why would the UK veto something it'd been lobbying hard to make happen?

 

Edited by Magilla

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5 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Perhaps they thought they were good ideas? Particularly the latter.

Indeed, the EU's eastern expansion happened because the UK made it happen!

 

It wasn't a failure, it was what the UK wanted, and got.

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there was a choice either the EU expanded, or Russia did.

 

(a bit more complicated than that, but not much)

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13 minutes ago, Magilla said:

Nonsense, how can these be failures when they were all policies supported by the UK government of the day?

 

Eastern European countries joining  was a signature policy of the UK government within the EU! :rolleyes:

 

The UK was the main advocate of the EU's eastern expansion and influenced the EU heavily in this area...

 

...why would the UK veto something it'd been lobbying hard to make happen?

 

All those failures to use the veto happened when the UK Government  of the day had a pro EU Prime Minister who all supported the UK remaining in the EU at the time of the EU referendum vote.  I'm not disputing the UK Government at the times supported the Maastricht Treaty, the Lisbon Treaty and eastern European nations joining and thus substantially increasing the EU membership.  What I am saying is there was much opposition within the UK to the Maastricht Treaty, the Lisbon Treaty and eastern European countries joining the EU which the UK Government of the day ignored.  I'm blaming UK Governments of the day for helping to turn the EU into the monster it is today which the UK electorate voted to leave.  

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