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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

 

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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On 05/12/2020 at 22:52, Litotes said:

 

I come back to you, where is the factual evidence, that this whole thread is based on, on the benefit of brexit?

There is none, at least none has been provided  - please provide us some

 

 

 

 

 

One fact that cannot be denied is that we're avoiding the probability of "Ever Closer Union"-  which would be the biggest "Consequence of Remaining".

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Total shambles. The best we can hope for is a poor deal that leaves us all poorer. Our spineless PM can’t stand up to the UKIP tendency in his party, so we are all being sold down the river.

 

Never mind though, the narrative is shifting to absolve all of the extremist Brexiters from blame. Apparently, this is all the fault of the remaininers.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/07/remainers-britain-soft-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Yeah, ok then.

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17 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

Total shambles. The best we can hope for is a poor deal that leaves us all poorer. Our spineless PM can’t stand up to the UKIP tendency in his party, so we are all being sold down the river.

 

Never mind though, the narrative is shifting to absolve all of the extremist Brexiters from blame. Apparently, this is all the fault of the remaininers.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/07/remainers-britain-soft-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

Yeah, ok then.

 You do know that Leave won the EU referendum?

1 hour ago, carosio said:

One fact that cannot be denied is that we're avoiding the probability of "Ever Closer Union"-  which would be the biggest "Consequence of Remaining".

Exactly. If we had voted to remain it's very unlikely any Government would have used the veto to prevent ever closer union.

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9 minutes ago, West 77 said:

 You do know that Leave won the EU referendum?

 

I do.

 

That’s why I’m amused that there is a move to blame remainers for this mess.

 

You do know that it’s a mess, don’t you.

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7 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

I do.

 

That’s why I’m amused that there is a move to blame remainers for this mess.

 

You do know that it’s a mess, don’t you.

The mess ended last December when the Tory party won a 80 seat majority which enabled the UK to leave the EU on 31st January this year.  The on going negotiations aren't a mess because Boris has the option to walk away without an agreement.  It's normal for negotiations to go to the wire when the EU is involved.

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14 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The mess ended last December when the Tory party won a 80 seat majority which enabled the UK to leave the EU on 31st January this year.  The on going negotiations aren't a mess because Boris has the option to walk away without an agreement.  It's normal for negotiations to go to the wire when the EU is involved.

In Boris we trust🙄

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1 hour ago, carosio said:

One fact that cannot be denied is that we're avoiding the probability of "Ever Closer Union"-  which would be the biggest "Consequence of Remaining".

 

Erm, yes it can be denied. As has been mentioned before - one of the assurances that Cameron got when he went to the EU was an exemption for the UK from any closer political union, amongst other things. 

 

But certain press at the time claimed he had gotten nothing from the EU, and I guess people believed it. 

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1 hour ago, whiteowl said:

 

Erm, yes it can be denied. As has been mentioned before - one of the assurances that Cameron got when he went to the EU was an exemption for the UK from any closer political union, amongst other things. 

 

But certain press at the time claimed he had gotten nothing from the EU, and I guess people believed it. 

What were the other things?

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1 hour ago, carosio said:

What were the other things?

Have a read

 

All academic now. Those were 'gets' whilst the UK was still in, and the relationship hadn't soured at all, relative to the extent that it has over the last 4 years.

 

By now, the UK would be very lucky to escape Schengen and the € if it rejoined soon...but then, by the time re-joining gets discussed to any realistic extent, the likelihood is that it won't even the 'UK' any more anyway.

 

What price political hubris.

 

EDIT- and looking at aftermath of Von der Leyden / Johnson phone call, it looks like Johnson's bluff did not work:

 

With @BorisJohnson, we took stock of the negotiations. The conditions for an agreement are not there due to remaining differences on critical issues. 
We asked our Chief Negotiators to prepare an overview of the remaining differences to be discussed in person in the coming days.

 

Curtains, I think.

Edited by L00b

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44 minutes ago, L00b said:

Have a read

 

All academic now. Those were 'gets' whilst the UK was still in, and the relationship hadn't soured at all, relative to the extent that it has over the last 4 years.

 

By now, the UK would be very lucky to escape Schengen and the € if it rejoined soon...but then, by the time re-joining gets discussed to any realistic extent, the likelihood is that it won't even the 'UK' any more anyway.

 

What price political hubris.

True, academic now and leaving signs seals and delivers it, but several of the deals mentioned were not cut and dried, as highlighted by this EU Analysis  opinion.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-it-legally-binding/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_conten

 

 

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19 minutes ago, carosio said:

True, academic now and leaving signs seals and delivers it, but several of the deals mentioned were not cut and dried, as highlighted by this EU Analysis  opinion.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-it-legally-binding/?utm_source=content_page&utm_medium=related_conten

It's been pointless discussing what Cameron fetched back from Brussels in February 2016, ever since Theresa May dropped the Article 50 letter back in March 2017, because the UK was garanteed to leave the EU by operation of law from that point forward.

 

And still more pointless, when the UK ceased being an EU member state altogether, nearly 3 years later, this past January.

 

Those get-outs were still not enough for the UK. So much so, that the UK wanted to leave the EU 4 months later and voted to do just that. Then the UK left. The end.

 

Not sure what else there is to say about these 'gets' from Cameron, tbh. More was unrealistic, for the exact same reasons the UK-EU deal has proven to be anything *but* that "easiest deal in history", and which are the exact same reasons the EU would rather no deal than a bad deal (-too). 

Edited by L00b

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2 hours ago, whiteowl said:

 

Erm, yes it can be denied. As has been mentioned before - one of the assurances that Cameron got when he went to the EU was an exemption for the UK from any closer political union, amongst other things. 

 

But certain press at the time claimed he had gotten nothing from the EU, and I guess people believed it. 

Actually it was a bit more nuanced than that, he got a written commitment that the UK was not ' expected' to undertake ever closer union, and that the words 'ever closer union' would not be used in the treaty text . A cynic might suggest that a non eurosceptic prime minister would accept ever closer union....just that the words would not be included in any treaty.

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