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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

 

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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4 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The EMA won't have any extra data to look at. The  MHRA started analysing the data available much earlier than the EMA.  Less  bureaucracy and the MHRA being the first regulator out of the starting block are the main reasons why the UK regulators have made their decision  quicker than the EU (EMA) and the US.

Why? Because the UK won't share it?

 

That's OK, Pfizer will.

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1 minute ago, L00b said:

Why? Because the UK won't share it?

 

That's OK, Pfizer will.

The same data was available to the EMA from Pfizer at the same time as it was to MHRA.   The early decision made by the MHRA should be a comfort to the EMA and all EU citizens when they eventually approve the use of the Pfizer vaccine. 

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17 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The EMA won't have any extra data to look at. The  MHRA started analysing the data available much earlier than the EMA.  Less  bureaucracy and the MHRA being the first regulator out of the starting block are the main reasons why the UK regulators have made their decision  quicker than the EU (EMA) and the US.

You're missing the point. Once the UK starts prescribing the vaccine, the other regulators will have data about the effects of that on the UK population to inform their own decisions.

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11 minutes ago, altus said:

You're missing the point. Once the UK starts prescribing the vaccine, the other regulators will have data about the effects of that on the UK population to inform their own decisions.

A weak point if I am being generous. Of course the effects of prescribing a vaccine on the general population will be known much better after it has been widely giving out. This will be helpful  to determine how long a Covid vaccine gives protection for.  The UK population at this time look to be closer getting protection from Covid-19 than the EU population in the 27 bloc. 

Edited by West 77

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12 minutes ago, West 77 said:

A weak point if I am being generous. Of course the effects of prescribing a vaccine on the general population will be known much better after it has been widely giving out. This will be helpful  to determine how long a Covid vaccine gives protection for.  The UK population at this time look to be closer getting protection from Covid-19 than the EU population in the 27 bloc. 

How is it a weak point? You said the EMA would have no additional data and I pointed out it will from the results of UK prescribing, which you accept. Even then, that's ignoring the fact that Pfizer are going to monitor the participants in their trial for another two years:

Quote

The Phase 3 clinical trial of BNT162b2 began on July 27 and has enrolled 43,661 participants to date, 41,135 of whom have received a second dose of the vaccine candidate as of November 13, 2020. Approximately 42% of global participants and 30% of U.S. participants have racially and ethnically diverse backgrounds, and 41% of global and 45% of U.S. participants are 56-85 years of age. A breakdown of the diversity of clinical trial participants can be found here from approximately 150 clinical trials sites in United States, Germany, Turkey, South Africa, Brazil and Argentina. The trial will continue to collect efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years.

So that's even more data that will be available to other regulators.

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1 minute ago, altus said:

How is it a weak point? You said the EMA would have no additional data and I pointed out it will from the results of UK prescribing, which you accept. Even then, that's ignoring the fact that Pfizer are going to monitor the participants in their trial for another two years:

So that's even more data that will be available to other regulators.

The EMA aren't going to wait another two years before approving the Pfizer vaccine for use. The EMA intend to give approval by the end of the year and their decision won't be influenced by what happens in the UK during the next 3 weeks.  Other countries including the EU bloc of 27 will benefit from seeing how the UK copes with the logistics involved in storing and administrating the Pfizer vaccine. 

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1 hour ago, West 77 said:

The EMA aren't going to wait another two years before approving the Pfizer vaccine for use. The EMA intend to give approval by the end of the year and their decision won't be influenced by what happens in the UK during the next 3 weeks.  Other countries including the EU bloc of 27 will benefit from seeing how the UK copes with the logistics involved in storing and administrating the Pfizer vaccine. 

And Pfizer aren't going to wait another two years before updating the regulators on what's been happening. It's not even about them reporting lots of people suddenly dropping dead after being vaccinated. Them stating "None of the participants of our trial have had adverse effects from the vaccine during the last month" is still more data - it's an extra month of everything going OK and would add confidence to a regulator's decision to approve the vaccine.

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3 hours ago, West 77 said:

A weak point if I am being generous. Of course the effects of prescribing a vaccine on the general population will be known much better after it has been widely giving out. This will be helpful  to determine how long a Covid vaccine gives protection for.  The UK population at this time look to be closer getting protection from Covid-19 than the EU population in the 27 bloc. 

And given that it's ben revealed today that shamefully Britain has the highest death toll in Europe from COVID-19 we need that protection!

I hope when Williamson was gloating about Britain being the greatest country in Europe with regards to covid, he wasn't including colleagues in his government.

I think most reasonable people would agree that the UK government response has been lamentable

Edited by Mister M

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3 hours ago, Mister M said:

And given that it's ben revealed today that shamefully Britain has the highest death toll in Europe from COVID-19 we need that protection!

I hope when Williamson was gloating about Britain being the greatest country in Europe with regards to covid, he wasn't including colleagues in his government.

I think most reasonable people would agree that the UK government response has been lamentable

Totally agree.

Williamsons comments are totally crass and misjudged.

Jingoism always grates with me ,and at a time when I hope that the best brains in the word are combining to get us all out of this mess,then Williamson ,Rees Mogg and Hancock should forget the political point scoring both domestically and internationally.

 

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8 hours ago, RJRB said:

Totally agree.

Williamsons comments are totally crass and misjudged.

Jingoism always grates with me ,and at a time when I hope that the best brains in the word are combining to get us all out of this mess,then Williamson ,Rees Mogg and Hancock should forget the political point scoring both domestically and internationally.

 

International political point-scoring by Williamson, JRM, Hancock, Patel <etc> is one that you really don't need to worry about, I'm sorry to say.

 

In case you haven't heard (because there doesn't seem to be much Brexit reporting in UK media lately, never mind factual), the negotiating long knives are currently coming out in France, The Netherlands, Denmark and a few others: they're unhappy with how easy Barnier is taking it on Frost and the UK, and would rather the deal negotiations get back-burnered into next year. I don't need to go further about that one, I think.

 

Williamsons' jingoistic optics are seen and understood for what they are might be, i.e. helping Johnson with some extra political capital at home to get a deal past the ERG headbangers, same as all the other jingoistic optics since Lancaster House in 2017.

 

But you're in serious danger of getting written off everywhere now, especially now that Biden is incoming to the White House and Trump's "clout" has been made redundant. The EU27, with UK-bordering countries ahead (France, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany), stayed fairly quiet for the past 4 years and just got on with adapting to a Brexited UK: they don't need a deal now, anywhere near as much as they may have needed one 4, or even 2, years ago. E.g. there's been tons of new ferry lines opened between Ireland and the Continent, towards making the UK redundant as a landbridge, and the rest is in keeping.

Edited by L00b

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2 hours ago, L00b said:

International political point-scoring by Williamson, JRM, Hancock, Patel <etc> is one that you really don't need to worry about, I'm sorry to say.

 

In case you haven't heard (because there doesn't seem to be much Brexit reporting in UK media lately, never mind factual), the negotiating long knives are currently coming out in France, The Netherlands, Denmark and a few others: they're unhappy with how easy Barnier is taking it on Frost and the UK, and would rather the deal negotiations get back-burnered into next year. I don't need to go further about that one, I think.

 

Williamsons' jingoistic optics are seen and understood for what they are might be, i.e. helping Johnson with some extra political capital at home to get a deal past the ERG headbangers, same as all the other jingoistic optics since Lancaster House in 2017.

 

But you're in serious danger of getting written off everywhere now, especially now that Biden is incoming to the White House and Trump's "clout" has been made redundant. The EU27, with UK-bordering countries ahead (France, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany), stayed fairly quiet for the past 4 years and just got on with adapting to a Brexited UK: they don't need a deal now, anywhere near as much as they may have needed one 4, or even 2, years ago. E.g. there's been tons of new ferry lines opened between Ireland and the Continent, towards making the UK redundant as a landbridge, and the rest is in keeping.

To be honest it's a lesson many English need to learn the hard way. There's no convincing committed brexiteers, but perhaps the hard reality of life next year will:

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-latest-uk-brace-months-food-shortages-1-january-delivery-782518

 

We've already stocked up on food.

 

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2 hours ago, L00b said:

International political point-scoring by Williamson, JRM, Hancock, Patel <etc> is one that you really don't need to worry about, I'm sorry to say.

 

In case you haven't heard (because there doesn't seem to be much Brexit reporting in UK media lately, never mind factual), the negotiating long knives are currently coming out in France, The Netherlands, Denmark and a few others: they're unhappy with how easy Barnier is taking it on Frost and the UK, and would rather the deal negotiations get back-burnered into next year. I don't need to go further about that one, I think.

 

Williamsons' jingoistic optics are seen and understood for what they are might be, i.e. helping Johnson with some extra political capital at home to get a deal past the ERG headbangers, same as all the other jingoistic optics since Lancaster House in 2017.

 

But you're in serious danger of getting written off everywhere now, especially now that Biden is incoming to the White House and Trump's "clout" has been made redundant. The EU27, with UK-bordering countries ahead (France, Ireland, Netherlands, Germany), stayed fairly quiet for the past 4 years and just got on with adapting to a Brexited UK: they don't need a deal now, anywhere near as much as they may have needed one 4, or even 2, years ago. E.g. there's been tons of new ferry lines opened between Ireland and the Continent, towards making the UK redundant as a landbridge, and the rest is in keeping.

There is clearly much jealousy that the UK is the first country to have bested the EU and not voted again to reverse a democratic choice not to the liking of the EU hierarchy.  The EU have done well mainly due to the help of Remainers by making it difficult to leave their organisation. It will be a while before any other EU nation have a referendum on whether to leave the EU. Countries like Poland and Hungary are certainly not happen the way the EU is run. To suggest Germany a massive exporter to the UK are not interested in a deal is laughable. Biden being the next US President will make very little difference for the UK. There is a big difference in saying things before you are in power to doing things when you are in power. The UK will always be the best country in the World just like Gavin Williamson believes.

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