Longcol   602 #1321 Posted November 16, 2020 1 hour ago, West 77 said: I'd wait first to see the outcome of the trade negotiations between the  UK and EU before talking to your mate in Dublin.  I'm at a loss. I gave you a honest reply. There will not be a harder border put in place by the British Government anywhere in Northern Ireland regardless of the outcome of the trade negotiations between the UK and EU. So instead of "taking back control" we'll have an open border for smuggling drugs, people, whatever ....................... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Car Boot   10 #1322 Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) 55 minutes ago, L00b said: Are you so sure that they understand the issue enough, to be avoiding it so studiously?  I'm not convinced. There is an agreement predating the EU by about fifty years allowing free movement across the UK and Ireland. The Common Travel Area arrangement began in 1922 and is not dependent upon either Irish or UK membership of the EU.  The Irish hard border ‘problem’ is entirely an EU construct. Nobody wants a hard border except the EU - to protect profits for business. Profits before people - it's the EU way.  Edited November 16, 2020 by Car Boot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Car Boot   10 #1323 Posted November 16, 2020 2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said: So i get a mate in Dublin to import stuff to Europe, drive over the non existant border and send me stuff tariff free.  Nice. Any action that undermines the integrity of Thatcher's Single Market should be approved of and pursued vigorously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Longcol   602 #1324 Posted November 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, West 77 said: You've lost me. How on earth can the UK enforce borders with countries or dismantle borders that we don't share a border with? Let's wait and see what the EU do on 1st January 2021 on the Ireland / Northern Ireland border if there isn't a free trade agreement between the UK and EU. Ever been to an international airport?  https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51226954?ocid=socialflow_twitter  https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/heathrow-airport-border-force-staff-cannot-cope-with-passport-checks-pressure-a3303391.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #1325 Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, West 77 said: The clue is in the name, the Internal Market bill is there to protect the internal UK market such as keeping the flow of goods and food flowing smoothly between the UK mainland and Northern Ireland. While singularly failing to protect the IM from smuggling, counterfeit goods and ability to collect appropriate taxes/tariffs on goods passing via NI.  A breach of the WTOs Most Favoured Nation rules.  So, again, how can the UK protect it's IM if goods are allowed to flow in freely from another market unchecked?  It can't, the IM bill (as it stands) explicitly undermines the UK's ability to protect the IM, and at the same time breaches the NI protocol which protects the GFA  Quote The alternative is to not to try to reason with Remainers and ignore them, then you don't get a headache from hitting your head against a brick wall. Someone's hit their head if you think either the WTO, or any nation we trade with will ignore the UK failing to secure it's own borders.  11 hours ago, Car Boot said: Any action that undermines the integrity of Thatcher's Single Market should be approved of and pursued vigorously. Except, in the example given, it's the UK's internal market that is being undermined Edited November 17, 2020 by Magilla typo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #1326 Posted November 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, West 77 said: You've lost me. LOL, what a surprise  Quote How on earth can the UK enforce borders with countries or dismantle borders that we don't share a border with? Where the border is is irrelevant, WTO rules state everyone must be treated equally.  If we're not going to have border/customs checks on goods entering the UK from the EU via NI (as per the IM bill), then we can't enforce them for anyone else either...  ...in which case, no country needs a trade deal with the UK.  Edited November 16, 2020 by Magilla Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b   441 #1327 Posted November 17, 2020 11 hours ago, Car Boot said: There is an agreement predating the EU by about fifty years allowing free movement across the UK and Ireland. The Common Travel Area arrangement began in 1922 and is not dependent upon either Irish or UK membership of the EU.  The Irish hard border ‘problem’ is entirely an EU construct. Nobody wants a hard border except the EU - to protect profits for business. Profits before people - it's the EU way.  The CTA governs the movement of British and Irish people. Not goods.  The Irish border 'problem' is in relation to goods crossing between the UK and the Single Market after Brexit. Not people.  It was good of you to quote my post: you just proved my point with your reply to it.   Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #1328 Posted November 17, 2020 54 minutes ago, West 77 said: If there isn't a trade deal between the EU and the UK then the EU will have no alternative but to accept a technical solution to operate tariffs and monitor the movement of goods because there isn't going to be a hard border. Only works if those moving those goods are honest, it won't stop smuggling or counterfeit goods entering the UK.  54 minutes ago, West 77 said: Don't tell me a technical solution can't work when it's is possible to develop vaccines within months to protect individuals from Covid-19. How do you envisage this technical solution will stop anyone simply loading a van with goods and driving over the border with them?  Unless people are going to be stopped and their cargo checked, it can't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ Â Â 2,040 #1329 Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Magilla said: Only works if those moving those goods are honest, it won't stop smuggling or counterfeit goods entering the UK. Â How do you envisage this technical solution will stop anyone simply loading a van with goods and driving over the border with them? Â Unless people are going to be stopped and their cargo checked, it can't. Interesting point you have raised there: currently, they aren't, so presumably the current system doesn't 'stop smuggling or counterfeit good entering the country'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
altus   540 #1330 Posted November 17, 2020 12 hours ago, West 77 said: You've lost me. How on earth can the UK enforce borders with countries or dismantle borders that we don't share a border with? Let's wait and see what the EU do on 1st January 2021 on the Ireland / Northern Ireland border if there isn't a free trade agreement between the UK and EU. In addition to the aeroplanes eluded to by Longcol there's also boats. Where to you think the UK's reputation as a great seafaring nation came from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #1331 Posted November 17, 2020 1 minute ago, RollingJ said: Interesting point you have raised there: currently, they aren't, so presumably the current system doesn't 'stop smuggling or counterfeit good entering the country'? Neither are currently an issue since we're both in the same jurisdiction.  The issues arise when we leave. The UK, as a signatory to United Nations charters, is obliged to put these protections in place.  There's a good article covering the subject in the FT: https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-d370-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9 "As the weeks pass, so the ideas get sillier. One circulating among certain Brexiters at the moment is that the UK could gain the upper hand over the Ireland issue by simply leaving the Irish border open after Brexit, charging no tariffs and making no inspections, and dare the EU to be the first to put up customs posts.  Would this actually work in the real world? No, for many reasons." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ Â Â 2,040 #1332 Posted November 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Magilla said: Neither are currently an issue since we're both in the same jurisdiction. Â The issues arise when we leave. The UK, as a signatory to United Nations charters, is obliged to put these protections in place. Â There's a good article covering the subject in the FT: https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-d370-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9 "As the weeks pass, so the ideas get sillier. One circulating among certain Brexiters at the moment is that the UK could gain the upper hand over the Ireland issue by simply leaving the Irish border open after Brexit, charging no tariffs and making no inspections, and dare the EU to be the first to put up customs posts. Â Would this actually work in the real world? No, for many reasons." So, it's OK to allow smuggling/counterfeit goods whilst we are in the EU, but not after? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...