apelike 10 #2677 Posted April 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, hackey lad said: I would call it dodging the question You mean not explaining why a hard Brexit has been catastrophic, hence the straw man bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
altus 540 #2678 Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, GabrielC said: The question I have about the Brexit saga is during the referendum we were told even if we voted leave we would still be in the Single Market and the Custom Union repeatedly by both sides. Roll on to Theresa Mays time this was dropped and the slogan ' Brexit means Brexit was pumped out by the government even though Mays deal would have the back stop to avoid an border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to me that was fair. But the deal was defeated a number of times but no real answers on what to do on the border issue. Given the unrest in Northern Ireland pulse the benefits to business surely it would have made more sense to stay in the Single Market and the Custom Union remember Norway have this arrangement yes I am aware the hard core Brexiteer would say no way but we need to face reality the EU is our nearest trading partner but the government seem L -bent on a US deal though Biden does not seem that keen on the idea. The leave campaigns didn't say we'd stay in the single market/customs union but that we'd keep all the benefits of doing so without having any of the responsibilities. This allowed them to avoid any questions about the consequences of leaving the EU - such as what about the border with Ireland or access to EU markets for our fishing fleets. Those leading the leave campaigns were either delusional as to what they could achieve or simply lying to get people to vote for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike 10 #2679 Posted April 9, 2021 24 minutes ago, GabrielC said: Northern Ireland is part of the Union not an country yes with an troubled past it took decades to get both sides to talk resulting in The Belfast Agreement. Yes I agree, Northern Ireland is just part of the Union and not a country in its own right so my apologies for that mistake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
GabrielC 57 #2680 Posted April 9, 2021 18 minutes ago, altus said: The leave campaigns didn't say we'd stay in the single market/customs union but that we'd keep all the benefits of doing so without having any of the responsibilities. This allowed them to avoid any questions about the consequences of leaving the EU - such as what about the border with Ireland or access to EU markets for our fishing fleets. Those leading the leave campaigns were either delusional as to what they could achieve or simply lying to get people to vote for them. So many lies told and still are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
hackey lad 3,980 #2681 Posted April 9, 2021 42 minutes ago, apelike said: You mean not explaining why a hard Brexit has been catastrophic, hence the straw man bit. Yes , I understand that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest makapaka #2682 Posted April 9, 2021 Need to be careful with all this. the media are panicking about a lack of bad Covid news and need something else to feed on. it would be interesting to see some proper journalism on what is happening in Northern Ireland - whether it’s a small minority or a genuine political change. I’m worried it will get hyped up in the wrong direction to fill the void. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RJRB 688 #2683 Posted April 9, 2021 3 hours ago, apelike said: Nice straw man there... You start your list and I will start mine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike 10 #2684 Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, RJRB said: You start your list and I will start mine Ahh, but I asked first..... If it cannot be explained why or how a hard Brexit has been catastrophic (a failure or disaster) then I don't need to put forward any explanation about it being a success. Edited April 10, 2021 by apelike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike 10 #2685 Posted April 10, 2021 4 hours ago, altus said: Those leading the leave campaigns were either delusional as to what they could achieve or simply lying to get people to vote for them. I think it was the former and for many just an ego trip to get Brexit passed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
GabrielC 57 #2686 Posted April 10, 2021 A question to the Brexit supporters what do you want out of Brexit in trade terms? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
carosio 186 #2687 Posted April 10, 2021 Th customs union and the single market was ok, it was the rest of it that was rejected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Delbow 705 #2688 Posted April 10, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, apelike said: Ahh, but I don't believe there can't be negatives though. Quote “We have repeatedly urged HM Government, political leaders and Institutions to take seriously our warnings of the dangerous consequences of imposing this hard border on us and the need for earnest dialogue to resolve matters. We reiterate that message now,” the Loyalist Communities Council said. "To date there has been a spectacular collective failure to understand properly the scale and nature of Unionist and Loyalist anger. Indeed there is a complete failure to understand Loyalists as people and equal citizens. A new Protocol must be negotiated... this means no hard border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, and no hard border on this island. https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/belfast-riots-loyalist-communities-council-20351387 Edited April 10, 2021 by Delbow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...