Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[apelike 10]

5 hours ago, Magilla said:

Police attacked as trouble flares:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56669508

 

... no connection with Brexit, obvs!

Nope, no connection at all. It's a bit like saying the riots in Bristol were a result of Brexit.

 

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‘Dishonesty’ over Brexit fuelled loyalist anger:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/07/northern-ireland-dishonesty-over-brexit-fuelled-loyalist-anger-says-stormont-minister

“They promised people unfettered access, which is not the case."

Me bolded.

 

Yes it is still the case as any border controls that may be implemented in the future are not for people but goods anyway and people can still crossover unchecked and unfettered.

 

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"And they denied the existence of borders, even as those borders were being erected."

As far as I know no borders have been erected and the design and preparation stages have been put on hold, much to the annoyance of the EU.

 

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"I think that that dishonesty, and the lack of clarity around these issues has contributed to a sense of anger in parts of our community.”

No, the dishonesty and anger is from someone who is very anti-brexit and just wants to stir it and has been doing just that for the past 2 years.

Edited April 8, 2021 by apelike

[apelike 10]

6 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

Although I agree entirely that there is a myriad of reasons for trouble starting again, it is difficult to see how this isn't going to escalate as a result of Brexit. Unionists are very annoyed with the new 'border arrangements' whilst Republicans don't want to see it change. It really isn't a difficult dilemma - by the UK leaving the EU, the freedom of movement between Ireland and NI has been compromised, knowingly, by the British government. 

Sorry, forgot to reply to this earlier. 

 

The UK leaving the EU does not mean that the freedom of movement of people between Ireland and NI suddenly stops or is compromised. The border controls so far and any proposed ones that may be implemented are for goods and not people. What we have at the moment is certain politicians and the media whipping up a frenzy about the rioting and blaming it all in the name of Brexit, and I think most people can see that very clearly. What is noticeable is that the majority are young with some not even in their teens. Those people like those in Bristol just want to cause trouble and cause mayhem without even understanding why they are doing it.

 

[Delbow 693]

5 hours ago, apelike said:

Sorry, forgot to reply to this earlier. 

 

The UK leaving the EU does not mean that the freedom of movement of people between Ireland and NI suddenly stops or is compromised. The border controls so far and any proposed ones that may be implemented are for goods and not people. What we have at the moment is certain politicians and the media whipping up a frenzy about the rioting and blaming it all in the name of Brexit, and I think most people can see that very clearly. What is noticeable is that the majority are young with some not even in their teens. Those people like those in Bristol just want to cause trouble and cause mayhem without even understanding why they are doing it.

 

It doesn't matter to Unionists what type of border it is, the point for them is that any kind of border between NI and the mainland is intolerable because it treats NI as different to the rest of the UK, and that is a slippery slope to the unification of Ireland in their eyes. To not understand that is to not understand the core of NI politics. The status quo in NI before the Brexit referendum was peace, and many warnings were made that any changes to border statuses risked changing that. A hard border would have meant Republican unrest, any border in the Irish Sea inevitably meant Unionists unrest. How far that unrest will go remains to be seen.

[Magilla 510]

11 hours ago, apelike said:

Nope, no connection at all. It's a bit like saying the riots in Bristol were a result of Brexit.

LOL...

 

Quote

Yes it is still the case as any border controls that may be implemented in the future are not for people but goods anyway and people can still crossover unchecked and unfettered.

The free movement of people has never been an issue.

 

The promise was in relation to goods and services!

 

"Throw those customs declarations in the bin".. remember? Turns out you have to fish them back out again if you want your goods to get there!

 

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As far as I know no borders have been erected and the design and preparation stages have been put on hold, much to the annoyance of the EU.

This is complete nonsense, that bears no relation to reality.

 

A border has been placed in the Irish Sea. There's one in the North Sea with France too, where you also won't have seen anything "erected"!

 

Customs checks continue, only the *full* checks that were due to start after the grace period have been postponed. They will happen.

 

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No, the dishonesty and anger is from someone who is very anti-brexit and just wants to stir it and has been doing just that for the past 2 years.

Aye... as yet *another* remain prediction starts happening...

 

Your entire post is an example of dishonesty!

Edited April 8, 2021 by Magilla

[tzijlstra 11]

7 hours ago, apelike said:

Sorry, forgot to reply to this earlier. 

 

The UK leaving the EU does not mean that the freedom of movement of people between Ireland and NI suddenly stops or is compromised. The border controls so far and any proposed ones that may be implemented are for goods and not people. What we have at the moment is certain politicians and the media whipping up a frenzy about the rioting and blaming it all in the name of Brexit, and I think most people can see that very clearly. What is noticeable is that the majority are young with some not even in their teens. Those people like those in Bristol just want to cause trouble and cause mayhem without even understanding why they are doing it.

 

The freedom of movement of people between Ireland and NI has not been compromised, which is good. The freedom of movement of goods (and people attached to them) between NI and Great Britain has, which isn't good. Due to Covid this hasn't quite been realised it seems, but if you want to take the ferry to Cairnryan from Belfast you will now have to have the right documentation for (some of) the goods you are taking along, same for plane journeys. It is the same problem with goods going to the EU, except it's replicated within the country by this arrangement.

 

This has resulted in the open threat to all staff on this new border: 'All border control staff are targets', which was graffitied at border controls. The worst thing about this situation is that it isn't even a permanent solution, in 3 years the whole argument starts again, adding further complications down the line. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by tzijlstra

[ads36 214]

wow.

 

and i cannot stress this enough.

 

wow.

[Delbow 693]

9 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Now the UK has left the EU future governments should look at the possibility of bringing back the death penalty and the birch.  I understand the post Brexit trade agreement has something about a commitment to similar human rights as the EU which is not the same as before Brexit.  The birch would be a suitable punishment and deterrent  for the lawless mobs we have seen recently on the streets in Bristol and Belfast.  Tougher punishments for rioters and lawless mobs is the way forward.

Dunce-tier nonsense. These make no difference to offending where they are used, this is just about some people's violent fantasies. 

 

Anyway, anything to avoid talking about any negative consequences of Brexit, eh?

[Delbow 693]

5 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The UK again having more freedom to set our own laws and punishments is a positive consequence of Brexit.

 

Anything to avoid condemning the lawless mob who are rioting on the streets in the UK, eh?

It's you who have tried to derail the thread. Not going to let you though. I must admit, I initially thought it would be the Republicans who the Tories were going to shaft on the border question, given that the DUP propped up May's non-government, so I was pretty surprised when it turned out to be the Unionists. It was obvious then that they would be livid - having bailed out the Tories, they were hung out to dry. Not the first people to be dropped by Johnson as soon as they'd served their purpose, so more fool them, but it's completely predictable that the people who put their faith in "their" politicians would feel betrayed, because that's what's happened. Maybe the UK govt figured the nationalist paramilitaries would cause more grief so decided against the hard border alternative.

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Now the UK has left the EU future governments should look at the possibility of bringing back the death penalty and the birch.

We'd have to leave more than just the EU for that to become even a remote possibility.

[altus 538]

39 minutes ago, Delbow said:

It's you who have tried to derail the thread. Not going to let you though. I must admit, I initially thought it would be the Republicans who the Tories were going to shaft on the border question, given that the DUP propped up May's non-government, so I was pretty surprised when it turned out to be the Unionists. It was obvious then that they would be livid - having bailed out the Tories, they were hung out to dry. Not the first people to be dropped by Johnson as soon as they'd served their purpose, so more fool them, but it's completely predictable that the people who put their faith in "their" politicians would feel betrayed, because that's what's happened. Maybe the UK govt figured the nationalist paramilitaries would cause more grief so decided against the hard border alternative.

Regardless of Brexit, continuing demographic changes in NI mean reunification with RoI is going to happen at some point in the future. No point in the brextremist elites sullying their perfect Brexit catering for people who won't even be members of the UK in the not too distant future. The fact that the Unionists helped them get their Brexit is of no consequence, the useful idiots have ceased to be useful.

[Delbow 693]

12 minutes ago, altus said:

Regardless of Brexit, continuing demographic changes in NI mean reunification with RoI is going to happen at some point in the future. No point in the brextremist elites sullying their perfect Brexit catering for people who won't even be members of the UK in the not too distant future. The fact that the Unionists helped them get their Brexit is of no consequence, the useful idiots have ceased to be useful.

And that's the nub in the context of the riots and threats. The Unionists have always been very needy of the British government's approval and a sense of a 'special' status, despite a lack of enthusiasm for them on the mainland. Since the Good Friday agreement and the loss of any special status, symbolism has taken on even greater importance for the diehard Loyalists, so the symbolism of a border in the Irish Sea is intolerable to them. I suspect they know the game is up, and that the days of NI existing independently of the Republic are numbered.

[apelike 10]

4 hours ago, tzijlstra said:

The freedom of movement of people between Ireland and NI has not been compromised, which is good. The freedom of movement of goods (and people attached to them) between NI and Great Britain has, which isn't good. Due to Covid this hasn't quite been realised it seems, but if you want to take the ferry to Cairnryan from Belfast you will now have to have the right documentation for (some of) the goods you are taking along, same for plane journeys. It is the same problem with goods going to the EU, except it's replicated within the country by this arrangement.

Thank you for your measured reply. At least some on here have the intelligence to understand what was said.