Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[tinfoilhat 11]

14 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Here are  three areas off the top of my head in which the UK Government failed to influence the EU.

 

1)  Not using the veto to block the Maastricht Treaty

2)  Not using the veto to block the Lisbon Treaty

3)  Not using the veto to stop eastern European countries joining 

Perhaps they thought they were good ideas? Particularly the latter.

[Magilla 510]

27 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Here are  three areas off the top of my head in which the UK Government failed to influence the EU.

 

1)  Not using the veto to block the Maastricht Treaty

2)  Not using the veto to block the Lisbon Treaty

3)  Not using the veto to stop eastern European countries joining 

Nonsense, how can these be failures when they were all policies supported by the UK government of the day?

 

Eastern European countries joining  was a signature policy of the UK government within the EU!

 

The UK was the main advocate of the EU's eastern expansion and influenced the EU heavily in this area...

 

...why would the UK veto something it'd been lobbying hard to make happen?

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Magilla

[Magilla 510]

5 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Perhaps they thought they were good ideas? Particularly the latter.

Indeed, the EU's eastern expansion happened because the UK made it happen!

 

It wasn't a failure, it was what the UK wanted, and got.

[ads36 214]

there was a choice : either the EU expanded, or Russia did.

 

(a bit more complicated than that, but not much)

[El Cid 212]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Here are  three areas off the top of my head in which the UK Government failed to influence the EU.

1)  Not using the veto to block the Maastricht Treaty

2)  Not using the veto to block the Lisbon Treaty

3)  Not using the veto to stop eastern European countries joining 

I havnt a clue what those treaties do, have they been negative?

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

All those failures to use the veto happened when the UK Government  of the day had a pro EU Prime Minister who all supported the UK remaining in the EU at the time of the EU referendum vote.  I'm not disputing the UK Government at the times supported the Maastricht Treaty, the Lisbon Treaty and eastern European nations joining and thus substantially increasing the EU membership.  What I am saying is there was much opposition within the UK to the Maastricht Treaty, the Lisbon Treaty and eastern European countries joining the EU which the UK Government of the day ignored.  I'm blaming UK Governments of the day for helping to turn the EU into the monster it is today which the UK electorate voted to leave.  

Are you suggesting a UK government does things that the majority don't like, even though it thinks it is the country's best interest? Or are you saying the UK population are easily stirred up by the media?

[L00b 441]

19 minutes ago, West 77 said:

<snip> Denmark held a referendum and voted against the Maastricht Treaty and Ireland held a referendum and voted against the Lisbon Treaty. Both Demark and Ireland were bullied by the EU to have the results of the referendums overturned.    <snip>

This is a lie. Prove it, or retract it.

Edited February 1, 2021 by L00b

[L00b 441]

17 minutes ago, West 77 said:

 Similarly the EU attempted to bully the UK into over turning the 2016 EU referendum result by using the Good Friday Agreement as a weapon. <snip>

This is another lie. Again, prove it, or retract it.

[Anna B 1,401]

2 hours ago, West 77 said:

The simply explanation  is the Maastricht Treaty was the beginning of turning the EU into a political union and the Lisbon Treaty continued the process by giving more powers to the EU and seeking the members to have such things as common foreign policies. Denmark held a referendum and voted against the Maastricht Treaty and Ireland held a referendum and voted against the Lisbon Treaty. Both Demark and Ireland were bullied by the EU to have the results of the referendums overturned.    Similarly the EU attempted to bully the UK into over turning the 2016 EU referendum result by using the Good Friday Agreement as a weapon.  Unlike Denmark and Ireland the UK people stood up to the EU by giving the Tory party led by Boris Johnson an eighty seat majority in the December 2019 general election to ensure the democratic choice the UK people chose in 2016 was fully implemented.

 

I'm saying there was considerable opposition from the UK people over the decades  towards the EU from turning into a political union rather than just an organisation to promote trade between member nations.  Both Tory and Labour governments over several decades ignored the public's concerns which led to the UK electorate deciding to vote in favour of leaving the EU when they finally got a chance to express their wishes.  The 2016 EU referendum result is proof that the majority of the electorate preferred to leave what the EU had turned into partly due to several UK governments not using the veto over the years to prevent the changes that turned the EU into the monster it is today.  

Totally agree with this. Also the governments had a habit of hiding behind the EU and blaming them for all the ills in the country. If something went right the government took credit if it went wrong it was the EU's fault. (The EU even had to ask the government to stop doing it!)

 

There was also the financial crash when a great many things came to light, (but the Conservatives persisted in saying 'it was the Labour government caused the crash' which wasn't true but won them an election,) Austerity, which again was just a neoliberalist political ploy which did no end of harm, the rise of the 'Chumocracy,' various cases of major tax avoidance/ evasion which went unpunished, and then there was the MPs expenses scandal, which appalled many voters. And so on for years, to the point where people were so disillusioned they were saying there was no point in voting because nothing was ever done about it, and the voter didn't have the power to change anything because all the parties were as bad as each other, and lead to the rise of Corbynism.

 

No wonder when the referendum happened nobody trusted politicians and didn't believe a word they said, and some just wanted to give them a bloody nose.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Anna B

[Magilla 510]

5 hours ago, West 77 said:

All those failures to use the veto happened when the UK Government  of the day had a pro EU Prime Minister who all supported the UK remaining in the EU at the time of the EU referendum vote.  I'm not disputing the UK Government at the times supported the Maastricht Treaty, the Lisbon Treaty and eastern European nations joining and thus substantially increasing the EU membership.  What I am saying is there was much opposition within the UK to the Maastricht Treaty, the Lisbon Treaty and eastern European countries joining the EU which the UK Government of the day ignored.  I'm blaming UK Governments of the day for helping to turn the EU into the monster it is today which the UK electorate voted to leave.  

So, not a failure of the UK to influence the EU at all, quite the opposite!

 

2 hours ago, West 77 said:

Both Demark and Ireland were bullied by the EU to have the results of the referendums overturned.

Utter claptrap!

 

The concerns were addressed and the treaty changed accordingly, resulting in overwhelming support in both cases.

 

A textbook example of democracy in action!

 

 

Honestly, you and Baron should try getting together and constructing a post that doesn't highlight how clueless you both are!

Edited February 1, 2021 by Magilla

[Magilla 510]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

This is a lie. Prove it, or retract it.

Yep, a lie.

[Magilla 510]

Only a month in, the "Boris backstop" is working well:

 

Animal-based food checks at ports suspended:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55895276

 

NI Protocol 'obstructs free movement of military':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55849864

 

Ooops!

 

 

 

Soil ban 'could cost nursery £500,0000':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-55894650

 

UK fashion industry warns it faces threat to survival:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55894914

"The fashion industry contributes more to UK GDP than fishing, music, film and motor industries combined"