Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Pettytom 1]

6 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Presumably the lorry park in Kent was the work of the chumocracy for a grossly inflated price?

 

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/sinkhole-opens-at-manston-lorry-park-240070/

There is a lot more chumocracy to come. 
 

Once the hedge funders and assorted other disaster capitalists have had their chunk, the Farage Garage mechanics will be a mere speck.

 

Poetic that it’s sinking though 

[sadbrewer 20]

3 hours ago, Litotes said:

And Boris' father looks to become a French Citizen...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55499773

 

Looks like all the liars and cheats who promoted Brexit are now on the other side of the f(r)ench reaping to rewards of the lies that they sold to the brexitmugs.

 

"They're in the money..."

Boris father is a Remainer.

[Pettytom 1]

Just now, KinderKid said:

Apologies, I think we're at cross purposes here. 

 

With the EC and Police not calling the result into question, I'm unsure there are grounds to call this undemocratic.

There are.

 

For a start, referenda aren’t a very good democratic tool. 
 

Cheaty, lying, corrupt referenda are even worse.

 

And then we have Aaron Banks and his unsavoury chums.

 

But I’m being ungallant. Enjoy your victory parade. But be sure to stick around to own the problems that it causes to folk who really don’t need any more problems.

[Dardandec 32]

12 minutes ago, KinderKid said:

It was actually in response to the use of "democratic" as if the whole process has collapsed.  

You don't fully understand "Democracy" I would strongly recommend you do a little self training in some capacity. Happy new year.

[KinderKid 0]

3 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

There are.

 

For a start, referenda aren’t a very good democratic tool. 
 

Cheaty, lying, corrupt referenda are even worse.

 

And then we have Aaron Banks and his unsavoury chums.

 

But I’m being ungallant. Enjoy your victory parade. But be sure to stick around to own the problems that it causes to folk who really don’t need any more problems.

I'm unsure I can agree with you on that one. 

 

Referenda are an important tool in building consensus when an elected body decides a single issue is too big to tackle on its own. The problem with consensus, and democracy in general, is that it relies upon the loser accepting the views of the majority, even if they vehemently disagree with it. 

 

Banks is a truly unsavoury character, but this comes back to the point of "can unsavoury people at times say some things which are insightful?" - in my view, yes they can. Similarly, whilst I strongly opposed Corbyn, I didn't deem all of his ideas to hold zero value. 

 

I shall be sure to stick around and take ownership of what comes next - it remains true that my major reasons for voting leave have been acted upon as promised. As yet there are no "facts" as to what the final impact will be on various social groups, at present this stands only to ideology. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Dardandec said:

You don't fully understand "Democracy" I would strongly recommend you do a little self training in some capacity. Happy new year.

Unfortunately I fear this means "You don't understand my view of democracy"

[sadbrewer 20]

26 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

There are.

 

For a start, referenda aren’t a very good democratic tool. 
 

Cheaty, lying, corrupt referenda are even worse.

 

And then we have Aaron Banks and his unsavoury chums.

 

But I’m being ungallant. Enjoy your victory parade. But be sure to stick around to own the problems that it causes to folk who really don’t need any more problems.

If referenda are such a poor tool why do other European countries have them for joining the EU or ratifying treaties?...whilst I agree about cheating and lying both sides were guilty, as to Aaron Banks the police found no case to answer. Remainers...The Lib Dems and the 'Better Together campaign were both fined for electoral irregularities.

Edited January 1, 2021 by sadbrewer

[Longcol 598]

30 minutes ago, KinderKid said:

I'm unsure I can agree with you on that one. 

 

Referenda are an important tool in building consensus when an elected body decides a single issue is too big to tackle on its own. The problem with consensus, and democracy in general, is that it relies upon the loser accepting the views of the majority, even if they vehemently disagree with it. 

 

 

Democracy is largely about compromise rather than the dictatorship of the (small) majority.

 

Or maybe that was the case pre 2016 and the advent of Trump.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Longcol

[KinderKid 0]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

Democracy is largely about compromise rather than the dictatorship of the (small) majority.

 

Or maybe that was the case pre 2016 and the advent of Trump.

Which depends on which majority you see as superior - that of the electorate or that of Parliamentary members. 

 

When Parliament ask for direction on an issue (in the form of a referendum) I would argue that the will of the electorate is superior - that is the purpose of asking after all. 

 

I'm equally unsure that maintaining the status quo represents any form of compromise. 

[Longcol 598]

13 minutes ago, KinderKid said:

Which depends on which majority you see as superior - that of the electorate or that of Parliamentary members. 

 

 

A large parliamentary majority can be easily obtained with well less than 50 percent of the electorate.   Not a mandate to act  as an elected dictatorship in IMHO.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Longcol

[KinderKid 0]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

A large parliamentary majority can be easily obtained with well less than 50 percent of the electorate.   Not a mandate to act  as an elected dictorship in IMHO.

Even more reason to respect the result of referenda in that case (including those on moving away from FPTP)

[Longcol 598]

Just now, KinderKid said:

Even more reason to respect the result of referenda in that case (including those on moving away from FPTP)

A majority of a couple of percentage points equals what?

 

Winner takes all (eg no deal)  or meet near the middle ground?

[KinderKid 0]

12 minutes ago, Longcol said:

A majority of a couple of percentage points equals what?

 

Winner takes all (eg no deal)  or meet near the middle ground?

Absolutely the former. Had it been a one vote majority in favour of Remain we should have remained, unquestionably.