Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Arnold_Lane 0]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Because it's too easy for us to get the foreigners to the job for us. 

Rubbish.  Lots of cars are still made in the UK.  Albeit, mostly for non-British owned marques.

 

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

The motoring industry is just one sector and there are other industries which will benefit from leaving the EU if future Governments have the correct policies to help and support British industry. 

How so?  BMW, VW, Mercedes etc. will still want to sell cars in the UK and will pressure the EU to make it happen just as easily as now - or so we were told.  

 

Equally, no way will the French government allow the EU to make it harder to sell their champagne here, we were all told.  

 

So, why would anyone who wants a Golf not buy a Golf?  Why would anyone buy Sussex sparkling wine when they can still get Moet?

 

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Brexit is an opportunity for the UK to start manufacturing our own goods again. 

No need.  We still still buy European.  The Germans and French will see to that, you promised us.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Arnold_Lane
grammar error

[the_bloke 17]

13 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

So. Why do we no longer make our own cars?

We do make our own cars.

 

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/cars-made-in-britain

 

I'm not sure anyone can blame the lack of British owned manufacturers on the EU; that is very much the fault of the British government and their awful nationalisation schemes of the 1960s (Austin, Rover, Morris, Jaguar, etc etc etc), as well as British manufacturers generally being poor and falling into foreign ownership to be later discarded (Rootes) or swallowed into vast conglomerates (Vauxhall).

 

Considering most cars in the world are made by only a handful of parent companies, you might as well ask the Spanish why they no longer have a manufacturer they can call Spanish. Or the same question, but Austria. Or Belgium. Or Mexico.  Or Sweden. It's a big list.

[Anna B 1,401]

19 hours ago, Pettytom said:

The question I’m asking is why can’t we make cars, but Germany can?

 

The answers I’ve got so far are that the EU stops us, or that it’s Thatcher’s fault.

 

I’m not convinced.

Did we make rubbish cars though? Or was it more of Thatcher's propaganda to close down the car industry like she closed down steel production and mining?

The rubbishness was always blamed on the workers, yet the same workers seem to do a good job for Nissan.

 

Doesn't make sense.

 

[Arnold_Lane 0]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Did we make rubbish cars though? 

 

The rubbishness was always blamed on the workers, yet the same workers seem to do a good job for Nissan.

 

Doesn't make sense.

 

Yes, many BL cars were rubbish and had reliability issues.

 

Look at the mainstream cars produced by BL (the Marina, the Allegro etc.) at around the time we joined the EEC and contrast them to the more dynamic, more advanced and/or more reliable cars available from Europe and Japan.

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

 Or was it more of Thatcher's propaganda to close down the car industry like she closed down steel

 

Nice attempt to re-write history there.  Thatcher brought Nissan to the UK.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Arnold_Lane

[Anna B 1,401]

1 minute ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Yes, many BL cars were rubbish and had reliability issues.

 

Look at the mainstream cars produced by BL (the Marina, the Allegro etc.) at around the time we joined the EEC and contrast them to the more dynamic, more advanced and/or more reliable cars available from Europe and Japan.

Then the designs were at fault. That needs looking at. Management seems to be the problem.

I refuse to believe that we are not capable of designing anything to match the foreign markets. And if not, why not?

[Arnold_Lane 0]

Just now, Anna B said:

I refuse to believe that we are not capable of designing anything to match the foreign markets. And if not, why not?

What are you going on about?

 

There is no volume car maker left under UK ownership.  Developing and tooling for a new car costs billions and takes years.

[the_bloke 17]

1 minute ago, Arnold_Lane said:

Yes, many BL cars were rubbish and had reliability issues.

 

Look at the mainstream cars produced by BL (the Marina, the Allegro etc.) at around the time we joined the EEC and contrast them to the more dynamic, more advanced and/or more reliable cars available from Europe and Japan.

We're going off topic, but a lot of European cars from the same area were just as unreliable as those from British marques. There is a reason Italian cars have reputations for rust and French cars have for dodgy electrics, and apart from the stuff Citroen were making it's hard to pick cars out from Europe that were any more advanced than the U.K. A lot of automotive firsts happened with UK cars, even in the 1970s and 1980s.  The Japanese made incredibly reliable cars but they rusted to oblivion just as quick as the stuff from Austin and Vauxhall. Just not as quick as a Lancia.

[Mister M 1,608]

UK facing risk of 'systemic economic crisis', official paper says

 

The government has privately admitted the UK faces an increased likelihood of “systemic economic crisis” as it completes its exit from the European Union in the middle of a second wave of the coronavirus pandemic.

A confidential Cabinet Office briefing seen by the Guardian also warns of a “notable risk” that in coming months the country could face a perfect storm of simultaneous disasters, including the prospect of a bad flu season on top of the medical strains caused by Covid.

 

UK facing risk of 'systemic economic crisis', official paper says | Politics | The Guardian

[Baron99 778]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

Did we make rubbish cars though? Or was it more of Thatcher's propaganda to close down the car industry like she closed down steel production and mining?

The rubbishness was always blamed on the workers, yet the same workers seem to do a good job for Nissan.

 

Doesn't make sense.

 

My bold. 

 

Yes we did but it was down to both a combination of poor product quality & workmanship, senior mis-management & endless power struggle between management & various union leaders, who seemed more intent on bringing down an industry with outdated work practices, all while an ineffectual, mostly Labour administration looked on. All this, by and large, pre-dates Thatcher as PM.  That's why he UK car industry produced such gems at the time as the Austin Allegro or All-aggro as it was also known. 

 

It's at this time, from the mid 1970's onwards, that Japanese cars started to appear in numbers, with better build quality at competitive prices. We were our own worse enemy. 

 

You ask why British workers now do a good job for the likes of Nissan?  Easy explanation.  The union barons no longer hold the power over a company such as Nissan, who could pack up & move production to another plant, (or move entirely), at any prolonged industrial action. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Baron99

[L00b 441]

12 hours ago, Baron99 said:

(...)

You ask why British workers now do a good job for the likes of Nissan?  Easy explanation.  The union barons no longer hold the power over a company such as Nissan, who could pack up & move production to another plant, (or move entirely), at any prolonged industrial action. 

British workers have been doing a good job for Nissan for around 40 years now, because their employer could move production at a moment's notice? Likewise for BMW-Mini for around 20 years?

 

Don't you think it could have more to do with consensus-seeking management, staff training and upskilling, regular investment in facilities, <...>? You know, with running UK facilities "like they do in Japan" (and in Germany)?

 

There's a number of reasons the UK has carried such a red lantern in productivity league tables for so many years. Based on 20-odd years working in the UK, I tend to believe that's not attributable to British workers' skills or working ethic at all, but to "make mend and do" short-termism by British management for eking the last penny of profit out of the joint and sod tomorrow.

 

Brexit is just another example of that, on a grander, national scale. It's a political British-Leyland and, eventually, it will have the same end. It's inevitable.

Edited November 26, 2020 by L00b

[Car Boot 10]

On 24/11/2020 at 16:05, Anna B said:

Can somebody tell me why we no longer make British cars in Britain? (Apart from Morgans, serious question.)

The political and economic will to make British cars no longer exists Anna, a consequence of our EU membership.

 

'Leave it to the EU - we're not capable' has become the mentality of most of our political leaders, the Whitehall mandarins at the top of the civil service and our so-called captains of industry.

 

It smacks of a 'UK is a failure' attitude which has become increasingly prevalent during our membership of the EU capitalist club.

 

So much so that it explains the Remain vote and the terrified belief that to Leave the EU is an act of economic suicide. It's nothing of the sort, of course. We will adapt and do things differently, as we always have.

 

It's not the fault of British workers that we don't make British cars anymore - it's because our political and economic leaders lack vision and ambition. 

 

Just leave it to the EU and the Japanese!

Edited November 26, 2020 by Car Boot

[Pettytom 1]

44 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Yes, of course the German motor industry will want to sell cars to British customers.  All the EU will want to continue exporting to Britain.  The trade deal is 95% agreed and it will be completed before 31st December.  However, Brexit is still an opportunity for Britain to start manufacturing products and goods again. If not much changes then it will have been a wasted opportunity.

Why was membership of the EU a barrier to  us  in terms of manufacturing? Other EU countries manufacture plenty of goods. Why were we so inept?

 

If you Brexiters don’t get a grip of this situation, it will be a wasted generation that we are looking at, not a wasted opportunity.

 

Over to you lot.

 

1 hour ago, Car Boot said:

 

 

'Leave it to the EU - we're not capable' has become the mentality of most of our political leaders, the Whitehall mandarins at the top of the civil service and our so-called captains of industry.

 

It smacks of a 'UK is a failure' attitude which has become increasingly prevalent during our membership of the EU capitalist club

 

 

I’m sorry, Wolfie, you are going to have to redraft this bit. Blaming the U.K. for sucking at the test of the EU is logically inconsistent with the notion that the EU was bleeding us dry. Remember that big red bus.

 

So, have another go. But do remember that you can’t be claiming that we are totally dependent upon the EU and that they are simultaneously totally dependent upon us. Unless you believe that symbiosis is a bad thing.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Pettytom