Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Magilla 510]

Just now, RollingJ said:

So, it's OK to allow smuggling/counterfeit goods whilst we are in the EU, but not after?

We're not allowing it, goods are checked by the border forces of the various EU members to (try to) prevent it at points of entry.

 

The point being that after Jan 1st, those points of entry for the UK will also include goods coming from RoE/NI.

 

Smuggling, in this context, is in regard to avoiding duties and tariffs on legal goods, since we are still in the SM there aren't any!

 

Currently, loading that van and driving over the border isn't smuggling, after Jan 1st it will be.

[Magilla 510]

26 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The VAT tax collection process works mainly on a system of honesty.  Those caught for not being honest suffer tough consequences

...*if* you catch them, to catch them you have to actually look, which is precisely what the IM bill strives to prevent!

 

Quote

By all accounts the only issues to be resolved in the trade negotiations are fishing and state aid which will soon be sorted. There is going to be a free trade deal between the UK and the EU meaning everything will stay the same regarding the Ireland / Northern Ireland border. 

A FTA won't change anything with regard to the Ireland / Northern Ireland border, that's why the NI protocol exists as part of the WA and stands regardless of any deal.

 

For everything to stay the same, even with a FTA, the treaty breaking parts of the IM bill must be removed.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Magilla

[Magilla 510]

1 minute ago, West 77 said:

Get real goods and people have and are still being smuggled into the UK via the Felixstowe and Dover ports everyday.

Perhaps, but that's not because the UK is simply refusing to bother to check goods entering at those ports.

 

They do have customs and border controls in place, there are checks on goods entering from other jurisdictions...

 

...not quite the same as suggesting not bothering at all.

 

1 minute ago, West 77 said:

It's time for you to accept the UK have left the EU and will still continue to trade with the rest of the World after 31st December 2020.

LOL, like Boris' "WW3" guff you fell for hook, line and sinker... no remain campaign ever suggested it wouldn't.

 

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

The VAT tax collection process works mainly on a system of honesty.  Those caught for not being honest suffer tough consequences Similar systems can operate with the movement of cross border goods along with technology. Smuggling will always happen. Goods can be smuggled into countries using international  postal services.

 

By all accounts the only issues to be resolved in the trade negotiations are fishing and state aid which will soon be sorted. There is going to be a free trade deal between the UK and the EU meaning everything will stay the same regarding the Ireland / Northern Ireland border. 

For things to 'stay the same' between Ireland and Northern Ireland under a trade deal, that trade deal would have to maintain the UK within the Single Market. Yes, with the ECJ, etc.

 

Whatever FTA deal gets agreed between the EU27 and the UK will not replicate SM membership. Not by an intergalactic mile. This is at the request of the UK, which wants to become "free to diverge", and which the EU is respecting.

 

That is why the WA Protocol was required: to ensure that whatever deal gets agreed (or not, indeed) between the UK and the EU27, 'things stay the same' between Ireland and Northern Ireland. And lest we forget, the WA Protocol was required because the UK hasn't delivered the technical system/measures which it proposed 3 years ago, that would have made this Protocol redundant: it's vapourware that still doesn't exist, anywhere in the world, even in experimental form, today any more than 3 years ago.

 

The UK government will be breaching that Protocol with its Internal Market Bill, should Parliament reinsert the WA Protocol-cancelling clauses that the Lords removed (-twice now, I think? that is what those recent massive government vote losses were about).

 

Glad to provide the usual fact-checking help 

 

Edit: based on precedent (£2.4bn EU fine, as I recall), the UK cannot be trusted on 'honesty'-based systems for VAT / excise management. So that's a non-flier for the EU27.

 

Edit 2: and as I see these throwaway arguments still flying around...with about 40 days to go now, considering the sheer scale on which things are going to change regardless of whether there is a deal or not (but especially if there isn't) and,  assuming that there is a deal, regardless of any phase-in period (which the EU will gladly grant I'm sure), it really is high time Leaver types (well, everyone, really) took off the rosy "things will stay the same"  goggles. They really are not going to. Fail to prepare, prepare to fail and all that.

Edited November 17, 2020 by L00b

[melthebell 863]

24 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Get real goods and people have and are still being smuggled into the UK via the Felixstowe and Dover ports everyday.

ooh look its one of those ooh look over there posts

 

Just because something bad happens, doesnt mean it should be used as an example to make other things bad, its like a while back, with the likes of chlorinated chicken being mentioned and just because sometimes bad food does get through then it suddenly doesnt matter if we lower our food standards Oo

 

its like brextremists are so obsessed with their cult that it really doesnt matter what happens...as long as if

[whiteowl 54]

22 minutes ago, West 77 said:

Brexit will mean more checks at ports such as Felixstowe and Dover regardless of whether there is a free trade deal with the EU.  Common sense tells me more checks at these ports will result in less smuggling of goods and people coming into the UK. I

Surely under your Northern Ireland border argument, if goods and people were desperate to get into the UK, they'd just go to the Republic of Ireland and walk in?

 

No border checks and all that.

 

It'd be a bit like me building a high wall around my garden to keep people out then not putting a gate on the driveway opening.

 

*edit*

Or are you proposing a border in the Irish sea? Don't think the Unionists liked that idea.

Edited November 17, 2020 by whiteowl

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

I'm not the one arguing for any changes to the Ireland / Northern Ireland border.

Brexit makes a border a necessity.

 

You explicitly voted for changes to the Ireland / Northern Ireland border, even if that border now ends up in the sea.

 

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

It's the Remainers like Magilla who seem to want a hard border because they profess to be concerned about smuggling.

Not just me, everyone the UK trades with or hopes to do a FTA with, will also be interested, not least because it would allow them to force an advantage for their ends via the WTO.

 

Quote

I've attempted to educate them and point out that more smuggling of goods and people get into the UK through ports such as Felixstowe and Dover.

Is sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming 'I am clueless' classed as education?

 

Quote

Brexit is likely to reduce both goods and people smuggling  coming into the UK via the EU mainland. I don't expect Magilla and other Remainers to thank Leave voters for helping to reduce the amount goods and people smuggled into the UK after 31st December.

Given the huge increase in boats full of asylum seekers crossing the channel, it's certainly working out well

 

The IM bill will facilitate smuggling, not reduce it.

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Magilla

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

I'm not the one arguing for any changes to the Ireland / Northern Ireland border. It's the Remainers like Magilla who seem to want a hard border because they profess to be concerned about smuggling. I've attempted to educate them and point out that more smuggling of goods and people get into the UK through ports such as Felixstowe and Dover. Brexit is likely to reduce both goods and people smuggling  coming into the UK via the EU mainland.

Remain supporters voted for the status quo in 2016.

 

Leave supporters voted against the status quo in 2016.

 

Therefore Leave voters (including you) were the party arguing for changes to the Ireland / Northern Ireland border (in and amongst all the other changes brought about by Brexit).

 

Not Remainers, who were the party arguing to keep that border as it was (in and amongst everything else they wanted to keep as it was).

 

Man up and own your success: you knew what you were voting for.

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

 I don't expect Magilla and other Remainers to thank Leave voters for helping to reduce the amount goods and people smuggled into the UK after 31st December.

After 31st December, I don't expect many Leave voters to openly admit that they voted Leave.

Edited November 17, 2020 by L00b

[Baron99 795]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

Remain supporters voted for the status quo in 2016.

 

Leave supporters voted against the status quo in 2016.

 

Therefore Leave voters (including you) were the party arguing for changes to the Ireland / Northern Ireland border (in and amongst all the other changes brought about by Brexit).

 

Not Remainers, who were the party arguing to keep that border as it was (in and amongst everything else they wanted to keep as it was).

 

Man up and own your success: you knew what you were voting for.

After 31st December, I don't expect many Leave voters to openly admit that they voted Leave.

I'll not let you wait until 31st Dec. 

 

I voted 'Leave' along with 17,410,741 others. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Baron99

[ads36 217]

sunlit uplands wasn't it ?

[Car Boot 10]

25 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

I'll not let you wait until 31st Dec. 

 

I voted 'Leave' along with 17,410,741 others. 

I am proud to have voted Leave too. Against all the odds, plucky little Leave took on the massed forces of the global capitalist Remain establishment.

 

And won. 

[Baron99 795]

21 minutes ago, ads36 said:

sunlit uplands wasn't it ?

We're not there yet.  You're welcome to join in or you can just stay where you are & not contribute to making a success of your country.

 

Up to you?