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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

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1 hour ago, Dardandec said:

Unfortunately, I will continue to believe leave voters are "dumb" were sold up the river and can't think for themselves. Why do I think that?  Because not one of you in the four years or so of these consequence threads running have you posted what the true benefits of leaving the EU really are, and how we are going to be better off. Is being better off what Brexit was all about? Feel free to start posting these benefits, the floor is all yours, Until. then I will remain on this section of my post-

 

"Unfortunately, I will continue to believe leave voters are "dumb" were sold up the river and can't think for themselves"

You will be waiting forever and a day.

We've removed an entire tier of surplus politicians from the public purse, the members of the fig leaf EU parliament. 

 

How is this not a win?

 

It gets better. We no longer have to obey the laws passed by the EU parliament and we no longer have to help finance it.

 

Definitely a Brexit benefit!

Edited by Car Boot

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2 hours ago, Car Boot said:

We've removed an entire tier of surplus politicians from the public purse, the members of the fig leaf EU parliament. 

 

How is this not a win?

 

It gets better. We no longer have to obey the laws passed by the EU parliament and we no longer have to help finance it.

 

Definitely a Brexit benefit!

How many laws do you want to get rid of? Which ones specifically?

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4 hours ago, Dardandec said:

Unfortunately, I will continue to believe leave voters are "dumb" were sold up the river and can't think for themselves. Why do I think that?  Because not one of you in the four years or so of these consequence threads running have you posted what the true benefits of leaving the EU really are, and how we are going to be better off. Is being better off what Brexit was all about? Feel free to start posting these benefits, the floor is all yours, Until. then I will remain on this section of my post-

Believe what you like  as it's quite obvious that all of you who didn't want to leave, are not going to let it all happen quietly.

I personally, didn't particularly want to be any better off if you mean in a financial way but I wanted to be FREE

The benefits I wanted were - No foreign court making  and enforcing laws on the people and the government of this country.

No foreign countries telling us who we have to let in  and out of our borders including criminals.

Nobody demanding money from us whilst the European gravy train wastes it and cannot even get it's figures through audit.

No foreign country over-fishing our fish stocks.

No massive rises in the European membership fees.

No having to join a European Army.

No more having our shops dictated to regarding how bent bananas are and other stupid regulations.

That's just a few and I'm too late from my bed to sit all night writing a comprehensive list and these few satisfy me anyway.

We don't agree which side is dumb whilst you want to stay under the European yoke.

We managed fine for hundreds of years without being in the European Union and I'm convinced that we will manage the same again.

 

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5 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

How many laws do you want to get rid of? Which ones specifically?

We must consign the EU's four freedoms (for business) to the dustbin of history. We want rid of the sacrosanct four freedoms, completely and utterly.

 

These false freedoms must go so that we can change the social Balance of the UK towards labour, not Capital as under EU rule. To do this we must make ALL EU law illegal in the UK. The road to a new socialism requires strict controls over the flow of goods, services, money, and labour. Thatcher's Single Market must be rejected and we must rebalance the economy away from Thatcherite services and towards industry and manufacturing.

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17 minutes ago, Car Boot said:

We must consign the EU's four freedoms (for business) to the dustbin of history. We want rid of the sacrosanct four freedoms, completely and utterly.

 

These false freedoms must go so that we can change the social Balance of the UK towards labour, not Capital as under EU rule. To do this we must make ALL EU law illegal in the UK. The road to a new socialism requires strict controls over the flow of goods, services, money, and labour. Thatcher's Single Market must be rejected and we must rebalance the economy away from Thatcherite services and towards industry and manufacturing.

Can you cite an example of a country which has successfully implemented such controls?

 

What form would these controls take?

Edited by Bargepole23

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6 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Believe what you like  as it's quite obvious that all of you who didn't want to leave, are not going to let it all happen quietly.

 

It "happened" already, on 30 January 2020. People who did not want Brexit to happen were as powerless before then as since, and any political opposition to it was finished off at the GE 2019.

 

It doesn't matter what "we" said before or say now, no more than what Brexiters said or say now: the UK is getting the post-Brexit relationship with the EU that its government wants, ie currently none whatsoever. 

 

That is the UK's sovereign choice (sovereign, because made by the HoC supporting the government's course of action) and that has no-cake-and-no-eating-either consequences.

 

Not bothering with the rest of your post: that collection of falsehoods has been debunked a million times already on here in the past 4 years and, after 4 years of entertaining Brexit supporters by asking them how do any of these alleged issues (were they true at all) affect them personally, we're still none the wiser.

 

Unsurprisingly so, since they're not affected personally by "the EU" in the slightest, given that these are myths.

 

It's so much easier to repeat anti-EU dog whistles -that takes one sloganeering sentence, eg "get Brexit done"- than to explain how and why such sloganeering sentences are dog whistles -that takes paragraphs with big words and links. In the same way most people notice job losses, but much fewer people understand why the job losses are occurring, and still fewer people understand jobs that could have been saved -and even increased-  if FDI had continued at pre-2017 levels.

 

That is in good part why Remain lost the referendum in 2016, and is still losing the debate now.

 

Edited by L00b

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11 hours ago, Delayed said:

I would suggest asking someone more in the know. I have access to the same information as you

I spent considerable time looking at the information available in search for an answer to the question I posed. The simple fact is that a lot of people voted for the pie-in-the-sky leave option without fully understanding or indeed wanting to understand what they were voting for. 

 

I find it rather incomprehensible that someone, anyone, not just you, can support a political movement so massive as Brexit, without wanting to know more about that movement and its benefits. I've given Car Boot a lot of stick on this forum, but at least he owns his vision and sticks to it. To me it is far more unforgivable not to have a vision at all. 
 

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8 minutes ago, tzijlstra said:

 

 

I find it rather incomprehensible that someone, anyone, not ........ you, can support a political movement so massive as Brexit, without wanting to know more about that movement and its benefits. I've given Car Boot a lot of stick on this forum, but at least he owns his vision and sticks to it. To me it is far more unforgivable not to have a vision at all. 
 

There you go. Fixed the statement for you. 
 

Again, you are assuming that because I don’t air my views, that I have none.  I have views. I just choose not to engage in pointless debate and label people

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1 hour ago, L00b said:

 

Not bothering with the rest of your post: that collection of falsehoods has been debunked a million times already on here in the past 4 years and, after 4 years of entertaining Brexit supporters by asking them how do any of these alleged issues (were they true at all) affect them personally, we're still none the wiser.

You asked how we  were better off outside Europe and when I tell you, you then decide that you will not bother with the rest of my post as that collection of falsehoods has been debunked -

what are these falsehoods, and they have been debunked by who?

This shows that you cannot make an arguement in respect of the points I made, so you don't want to discuss them at all.

 

Another fact for you to ponder is that there are only 27 nations in the EU and they are not doing fantastically well financially.

There are 168 nations who are not  members of the EU and they seem to manage to trade with the rest of the world without any problems so why can't we do the same?

Some of these nations have so much financial clout that it makes our eyes water.

They are not afraid of coping without Europe and I am not afraid of coping without Europe so, why are you so afraid.

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41 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You asked how we  were better off outside Europe and when I tell you, you then decide that you will not bother with the rest of my post as that collection of falsehoods has been debunked -

what are these falsehoods, and they have been debunked by who?

This shows that you cannot make an arguement in respect of the points I made, so you don't want to discuss them at all.

All it shows, is that I don't feel like discussing them yet again.

 

But if you should insist, fine: back up each of your claims with evidence (red top anti-EU diarrhoea does not count as evidence) first. Then I'll use the Forum search function and link you to the corresponding -and relevant- debunking.

 

I'm not doing the fact-checking and posting legwork yet again, if you don't first do your own claim-backing. The days of putting together considered replies with facts and links every time a Leaver parrots a red top headline like a doorbell and runs away, are well and truly done.

41 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

Another fact for you to ponder is that there are only 27 nations in the EU and they are not doing fantastically well financially.

There are 168 nations who are not  members of the EU and they seem to manage to trade with the rest of the world without any problems so why can't we do the same?

Some of these nations have so much financial clout that it makes our eyes water.

They are not afraid of coping without Europe and I am not afraid of coping without Europe so, why are you so afraid.

This is trending currently:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/The_ChrisShaw/status/1320621527591755776?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

 

It might help your understanding of economics. It illustrates quite plainly and clearly how the 20% devaluation of the £ in June 2016 did not help UK exports, contrary to Leaver arguments of the time who were busy nee-ne-ne'ing us Remainers with their 'win' and dubbing our counter-arguments about those exports -and the UK manufacturing capacity generally- as "Project Fear".

 

Well past too late now. The UK has been haemorraging FDI in proportion to that drop in exports over that same 3 year period.

Edited by L00b

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19 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

You asked how we  were better off outside Europe and when I tell you, you then decide that you will not bother with the rest of my post as that collection of falsehoods has been debunked -

what are these falsehoods, and they have been debunked by who?

This shows that you cannot make an arguement in respect of the points I made, so you don't want to discuss them at all.

 

Another fact for you to ponder is that there are only 27 nations in the EU and they are not doing fantastically well financially.

*There are 168 nations who are not  members of the EU and they seem to manage to trade with the rest of the world without any problems so why can't we do the same?*

Some of these nations have so much financial clout that it makes our eyes water.

**They are not afraid of coping without Europe and I am not afraid of coping without Europe so, why are you so afraid.

 my bold.

 

*- Its this kind of broad sweeping generalisation that many use these days. Often by Brexiters on this thread

Its so impossible to be true that its laughable.

 

** - This kind of emotional rubbish is not worthy of comment.

 

Edited by Flanker7
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19 minutes ago, Flanker7 said:

 my bold.

 

*- Its this kind of broad sweeping generalisation that many use these days. Often by Brexiters on this thread

Its so impossible to be true that its laughable.

 

** - This kind of emotional rubbish is not worthy of comment.

 

Not worthy of comment because you can't think of one.

Please yourself.

I don't mind if you are unhappy about leaving Europe.

24 minutes ago, L00b said:

All it shows, is that I don't feel like discussing them yet again.

It might help your understanding of economics.

That's fine - we won't discuss them then.

Your economic standing is?

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