Longcol   600 #985 Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Baron99 said: Maybe I have, maybe I've not? Maybe it's the whiskey? I'll concede in part. I only ever drink beer when I'm on SF - enjoy 😉 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Baron99   794 #986 Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Longcol said: I only ever drink beer when I'm on SF - enjoy 😉 Cheers 🥃 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Car Boot   10 #987 Posted October 17, 2020 39 minutes ago, Litotes said: You said the majority of the UK, not the majority of the electorate...  ...talking about the uneducated.... So you recognise that the majority of the people who made their voices heard democratically voted to Leave the EU. That's good then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Longcol   600 #988 Posted October 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Car Boot said: So you recognise that the majority of the people who made their voices heard democratically voted to Leave the EU. That's good then. "Good" as in they followed the line of the right wing of the Tory Party?  That's going to do a lot of "good" for the working class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Car Boot   10 #989 Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, Longcol said: "Good" as in they followed the line of the right wing of the Tory Party?  That's going to do a lot of "good" for the working class. The right wing of the Tory Party, 'Austerity Osbourne' and 'Cuts in benefits Cameron' supported our EU membership. These EU rich boys didn't do a lot of good for the working class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Pettytom   1 #990 Posted October 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Car Boot said: The right wing of the Tory Party, 'Austerity Osbourne' and 'Cuts in benefits Cameron' supported our EU membership. These EU rich boys didn't do a lot of good for the working class. Good job you’ve jumped in with the ultra far right wing of the Tory party then.  Much more compassionate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Longcol   600 #991 Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Car Boot said: The right wing of the Tory Party, 'Austerity Osbourne' and 'Cuts in benefits Cameron' supported our EU membership. And the Tories in power now are well to the right of them.  Who is going to pay for all Sunak's borrowing? Who is bearing the brunt of the Tories crass handling of the Covid crisis?  Yup - workers / BME communities. Edited October 17, 2020 by Longcol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Westie1889   0 #992 Posted October 18, 2020 16 hours ago, El Cid said: That is massive compared to staying in. If your company reduces its profits by 2%, that is a lot of money, over all the country. Yes it is if businesses don’t take steps to mitigate some of the increases. We are a large business so can do that to a degree, more direct sourcing from the Asian factories, re-negotiation with EU suppliers and also potentially more sourcing from UK suppliers who may now be more competitive. The problem is the UK’s manufacturing base is not what it could or should be, successive govt’s have failed to have an industrial policy as they chased services so hopefully this will change. All of the above is more difficult for smaller businesses though. One thing we are seeing is upwards pressure on wages in certain roles, many Eastern European workers have gone home due to Covid and we are having to pay higher wages for roles like HGV drivers due to the shortage of qualified people.   Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Car Boot   10 #993 Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Westie1889 said: Yes it is if businesses don’t take steps to mitigate some of the increases. We are a large business so can do that to a degree, more direct sourcing from the Asian factories, re-negotiation with EU suppliers and also potentially more sourcing from UK suppliers who may now be more competitive. The problem is the UK’s manufacturing base is not what it could or should be, successive govt’s have failed to have an industrial policy as they chased services so hopefully this will change. All of the above is more difficult for smaller businesses though. One thing we are seeing is upwards pressure on wages in certain roles, many Eastern European workers have gone home due to Covid and we are having to pay higher wages for roles like HGV drivers due to the shortage of qualified people.   Once we are free of the EU's globalising agenda we can rebalance the economy towards productive industry and manufacturing and away from unproductive labour such as speculative financial services. A modern economy cannot provide for all if it doesn't have a long term manufacturing and industrial Base. Financial services provide a quick return for the few, a form of medieval alchemy of making money out of thin air in which production has no part to play but gambling on the money markets is its essence. No wonder financial collapse is always just around the corner when a society is reliant upon this form of money speculation. There must be strict controls on the export of capital to protect our currency and economy.  Pressure to increase wages is excellent news for the worker - a direct benefit of Brexit. 'Getting on your bike' to look for work was exploitative and unacceptable when Norman Tebbit demanded unemployed workers move home to seek jobs elsewhere. Then under the EU and the dreadful Single Market it became the accepted norm for migrant workers, low pay and zero hours contracts.  A labour market plan for full employment, skills development and high tech manufacturing can only happen once employers are deprived of their dependency on cheap unskilled European migrants. Edited October 18, 2020 by Car Boot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
El Cid   216 #994 Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Car Boot said: Financial services provide a quick return for the few, a form of medieval alchemy of making money out of thin air in which production has no part to play but gambling on the money markets is its essence. No wonder financial collapse is always just around the corner when a society is reliant upon this form of money speculation. There must be strict controls on the export of capital to protect our currency and economy. Not sure what power the EU have over the London Stock market. One of my neighbours has recently bought a house in France, I guess that would be classed as export of capital in your view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tzijlstra   11 #995 Posted October 18, 2020 15 hours ago, Car Boot said: I think its interesting that a Remain voter actually care's about what may advantage the working class.  One thing that's become patently obvious since the referendum is the high level of disdain most remain voters have for the working class and the underclass.  Brexit was a working class revolt against the establishment that will advantage the working class by:  1. Ending the control of the unelected EU Commissioners and the anti-trade union, anti-worker, European Court of Justice. So Brexit frees our elected Parliament from the control of those we don’t elect.  2. It will advantage the working class by bringing our borders back under national control, enabling us to begin proper labour market planning. Free movement is a capitalist con trick that makes slaves and nomads of the poorest to suit the short term needs of big business.  3. We have the chance to rebalance the economy away from financial services to manufacturing and production. State aid, negotiating trade deals that benefit the UK, renationalising major utilities are ALL incompatible with membership of the Single Market.  Simple fact is Car Boot, we now have your precious Brexit and it is looking like it will be a No Deal Brexit. I can rail against it all I want, it isn't going to change anything so I am looking for constructive dialogue.  1. The EU Commission is made up of representatives of national governments, it is one of the strongest political organs on the planet and the UK chose to leave it's seat of power on that table. But I concede that a No Deal Brexit will give the UK back control over its own national affairs at the expense of international influence.  2. This point I will never concede, the UK has had a low unemployment rate for decades. Reducing access to labour for the national market will act as a constraint, limiting the ability to be self sufficient. This will drive up cost for internally produced goods as well as force higher imports from other parts of the world. Factor in that the median average income per household in the UK has risen steadily year on year, 'despite' being in the EU. Chances are that this will now change - we will have to wait and see.  3. Can you elaborate on this, as to me this is the interesting and rather crucial area of discussion that we need to have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Bargepole23   337 #996 Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Car Boot said: Once we are free of the EU's globalising agenda we can rebalance the economy towards productive industry and manufacturing and away from unproductive labour such as speculative financial services. A modern economy cannot provide for all if it doesn't have a long term manufacturing and industrial Base. Financial services provide a quick return for the few, a form of medieval alchemy of making money out of thin air in which production has no part to play but gambling on the money markets is its essence. No wonder financial collapse is always just around the corner when a society is reliant upon this form of money speculation. There must be strict controls on the export of capital to protect our currency and economy.  Pressure to increase wages is excellent news for the worker - a direct benefit of Brexit. 'Getting on your bike' to look for work was exploitative and unacceptable when Norman Tebbit demanded unemployed workers move home to seek jobs elsewhere. Then under the EU and the dreadful Single Market it became the accepted norm for migrant workers, low pay and zero hours contracts.  A labour market plan for full employment, skills development and high tech manufacturing can only happen once employers are deprived of their dependency on cheap unskilled European migrants. I work now, and have worked in the past, with European migrants in high tech manufacturing. They are nether cheap, and they most certainly aren't unskilled. Such a tired stereotype.  Manufacturing and engineering does not and cannot exist in a national bubble. Engineering companies need to have the ability to move material and people easily across national borders. Edited October 18, 2020 by Bargepole23 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...