Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Litotes 63]

21 hours ago, Car Boot said:

Brexit is rightfully refocusing the UK economy away from such toxic capitalism. 

And as has been shown the toxic capitalists that supported brexit and now firmly on the 'leave' side - they are leaving in their droves.

Ploughing their money into where????

 

Oh, yes, Europe - can't be all that bad then eh?

 

Never mind - the Brexit deal will be the "easiest deal in human history" - famous last words of a now long forgotten believer.

[whiteowl 54]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think we need to leave with no deal with all the problems that causes (have been asking for 4 years for a benefit, still not got a decent one).

 

Only then will people see that we're better off inside the EU and we can rejoin as a proper member, rather than a black sheep that thinks itself something special.

 

And just to pee off the "We didn't fight two world wars, etc, etc...." and "Churchill would turn in his grave, etc, etc..." brigade, here's a clip of Churchill calling for a United States of Europe:

 

 

 

To be fair, as I try and stay balanced in my opinions - did he change his mind later in life?  I've not seen any evidence of it but if someone can provide a clip of it then I'd accept that.

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Edited September 29, 2020 by whiteowl
didn't want to get shouted at by Mort ;)

[Magilla 510]

Britain's car industry risks losing out even if there is a post-Brexit trade deal with the EU

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54345882

"The original Brexit deal negotiated by former PM Theresa May contained a route to minimise checks on what are known as "rules of origin".

That option was removed as part of the revision to the withdrawal agreement a year ago."

 

The Boris effect!

[Tony 10]

12 hours ago, whiteowl said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think we need to leave with no deal with all the problems that causes (have been asking for 4 years for a benefit, still not got a decent one).

 

Only then will people see that we're better off inside the EU and we can rejoin as a proper member, rather than a black sheep that thinks itself something special.

 

And just to pee off the "We didn't fight two world wars, etc, etc...." and "Churchill would turn in his grave, etc, etc..." brigade, here's a clip of Churchill calling for a United States of Europe:

 

 

 

To be fair, as I try and stay balanced in my opinions - did he change his mind later in life?  I've not seen any evidence of it but if someone can provide a clip of it then I'd accept that.

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Common misunderstanding - Churchill was talking about the continental European nations, absolutely not the UK being a part of a US of E.

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

 

Common misunderstanding - Churchill was talking about the continental European nations, absolutely not the UK being a part of a US of E.

Nonsense!

 

Churchill promoted and supported a US of E in which Britain would play a decisive part. He argued that Britain (or France) should be a founder of this movement, stating that "Britain will have to play her full part as a member of the European family".

 

His only reservation was how Empire would fit, but in 1961 that was almost gone and he endorsed the governments efforts to join the EEC.

 

The EEC's founding principles were always about moving to a USofE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuman_Declaration), Churchill was fully aware of this.

 

Churchill also called for the creation of a European Army "under a unified command".

[L00b 441]

4 hours ago, Magilla said:

Britain's car industry risks losing out even if there is a post-Brexit trade deal with the EU

There is no 'risk' about it: the EU27 have nixed ROOs on Japanese or Turkish automotive components into UK cars irrespective of any deal. 

 

That is what 'in any circumstances' mean, in:

 

The commission has made clear that it will not agree third-country cumulation in any circumstances, which we regret, but obviously cannot insist upon," says Lord Frost's letter

 

So it's a loss no matter what happens now.

 

So, after the truck queues and decimated automotive exports, which predicted consequence of Brexit is your government going to turn into a reality next?

 

I'm thinking medicinal or chemical shortages.

 

Now, if the UK should bin the NI Protocol- and GFA-breaching Internal Market Bill, that Parliament voted through last night, the EU27 might listen again. Better hurry.

Edited September 30, 2020 by L00b

[Tony 10]

@Magilla Go and read his speech about the "United States Of Europe". I have and you obviously haven't because you are wrong and it is obvious to anyone who has read the speech. 

[Magilla 510]

34 minutes ago, Tony said:

@Magilla Go and read his speech about the "United States Of Europe". I have and you obviously haven't because you are wrong and it is obvious to anyone who has read the speech. 

Actually, I have, it was made in 1946.

 

Maybe you should read some later speeches, where my quotes originated

 

At first he did not envisage Britain being a "full" member of a USofE because of Empire (saying so in the commons in 1950), but by 1961 Churchill fully endorsed the governments efforts to joining the then EEC as it became clear Empire was going.

 

He fully understood that was merely a stepping stone towards the creation of a USofE.

Interestingly, when asked about "national sovereignty" after that speech, he said:

"The Conservative and Liberal Parties say, without hesitation, that we are prepared to consider, and if convinced to accept, the abrogation of national sovereignty, provided that we are satisfied with the conditions and the safeguards. The Conservative and Liberal Parties declare that national sovereignty is not inviolable, and that it may be resolutely diminished for the sake of all the men in all the lands finding their way home together."

 

By the 1960's, Churchill fully supported Britain's membership in a USofE.

 

Turns out, people change their minds depending on circumstance!

Edited September 30, 2020 by Magilla

[Tony 10]

What a load of tosh. I'm a bit embarrassed for you that you have to quote what Heath thought Churchill might have thought if he'd been alive in 1994 instead of what he actually said. You'd have saved the embarrassment if you'd  read the speech to the end, or actually understood it in the first place.

 

Quote

I now sum up the propositions which are before you. Our constant aim must be to build and fortify the United Nations Organisation. Under and within that world concept we must re-create the European family in a regional structure called, it may be, the United States of Europe, and the first practical step will be to form a Council of Europe. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join a union we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and who can. The salvation of the common people of every race and every land from war and servitude must be established on solid foundations, and must be created by the readiness of all men and women to die rather than to submit to tyranny. In this urgent work France and Germany must take the lead together. Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America — and, I trust, Soviet Russia, for then indeed all would be well — must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live. Therefore I say to you “Let Europe arise!”

 

What is it about a certain sect of Remain fanatics that they invoke Churchill to their cause - is it because they see Churchill's words as a dog-whistle for their opponents? If only he'd said the half the things they claim when he was alive they might have the makings of a point, but he didn't and frankly he's been dead for nearly 60 years, just forget about him. Churchill has nothing to say on the subject of Brexit. 

 

Now go away and grow up. 

[Magilla 510]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Now go away and grow up. 

LOL, keep on digging... we haven't got to the "we choose the sea" thing yet

 

Churchill wrote to his constituency Chairman in 1961: "I think that the Government are right to apply to join the European Economic Community"

 

A community that was specifically about becoming a USofE.

 

Why would he have done this?

 

Churchill clearly changed his mind, the direction of which was clear from his later speeches... the ones you couldn't be bothered to read

 

59 minutes ago, L00b said:

There is no 'risk' about it: the EU27 have nixed ROOs on Japanese or Turkish automotive components into UK cars irrespective of any deal.

Indeed, why wouldn't they... so will the USA, China, Russia and just about everyone else too.

 

Leavers don't seem to have twigged that this is precisely what they voted for, judging by the comments on some other forums

 

[Magilla 510]

Looks like Boris has blinked first on fishing rights, kicking the can down the road for another 3 years...

 

...needless to say, Mail readers are up in arms

[Magilla 510]

The EU has sent formal notice of it's intention to take legal action against the UK for violating the letter of the Withdrawal Agreement.

 

The process begins...

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Magilla