Magilla   510 #481 Posted August 6, 2020 13 hours ago, West 77 said: All Tory Candidates agreed to support the Withdrawal Agreement before the December General Election because that was part of the Tory Election Manifesto. Many Tory MPs didn't like the Withdrawal Agreement which they voted for. Nice try, but no cigar.  IDS wasn't one of them! He was one of the main standard bearers and proponents of it, declaring it "Oven Ready" and stating in Parliament:  "If there is anything about this arrangement that we have not now debated, thrashed to death, I would love to know what it is"  Of course, if he'd bothered to actually read it, and given MPs the time to do the same, he wouldn't be moaning about the "small print" now.  Simply, he didn't know what he was voting for... Brexit in a nutshell.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #482 Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, West 77 said: You're writing nonsense. Duncan Smith has read and studied every trade agreement the EU has made with other countries as well as the Withdrawal Agreement. LOL, only in your head, since you just made that up!  Desperate stuff!  IDS is now urging the UK government to denounce the WA, so clearly, he didn't "study" it at all...  Unfortunately for him, it's a legally binding agreement... doing so will have significant knock on effects for the UK.  Edited August 6, 2020 by Magilla Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b   441 #483 Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) IDS probably studied and understood very well the WA at all times.  Simply put, no matter the WA clauses, effects and cobsequences, it was politically expedient to support it back in 2019 for maxing out the GE outcomes, and it is now politically expedient to denounce it for maxing out the chances of no deal in 155 days.  It's just noise for internal/domestic consumption, and politico-tribal positioning.  But it really doesn't matter in the grander scheme of things: the EU has allocated €5bn for mitigating a no deal Brexit...and €1800bn  for mitigating the Covid socio-economic consequences. Enough said, really.  Do as you will. See if the EU27 cares. We got over it Edited August 6, 2020 by L00b Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #484 Posted August 6, 2020 24 minutes ago, L00b said: IDS probably studied and understood very well the WA at all times.  Simply put, no matter the WA clauses, effects and cobsequences, it was politically expedient to support it back in 2019 for maxing out the GE outcomes, and it is now politically expedient to denounce it for maxing out the chances of no deal in 155 days. "Brexiteer deliberately misleads/lies to support party over country and advance their own career"...  ...far more believeable than the guff West is making up Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
altus   540 #485 Posted August 6, 2020 I'm not sure IDS wants to set a precedent where people who voted one way on brexit should be allowed to change their minds and overrule the result when they discover it wasn't what they thought they were voting for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b   441 #486 Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, altus said: I'm not sure IDS wants to set a precedent where people who voted one way on brexit should be allowed to change their minds and overrule the result when they discover it wasn't what they thought they were voting for. Liked. Immensely so  The German minister Michael Roth poked a dig at Britain's lack of engagement with the negotiations today. That'll go down well with the "2 world wars 1 world cup" brigade Edited August 6, 2020 by L00b Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #487 Posted August 7, 2020 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53685266  So much for throwing those customs forms in the bin...  ...another £355m needlessly spaffed up the wall.  Brexit, the gift that keeps on taking!  Slow clap for the leavers.... again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Car Boot   10 #488 Posted August 13, 2020 Brexit is very much a middle class anxiety.  Working class people moved on from Brexit long ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ECCOnoob   1,029 #489 Posted August 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, Car Boot said: Brexit is very much a middle class anxiety.  Working class people moved on from Brexit long ago. Wow. That is a hell of a generalisation to be making. I'd like to see your evidence for that statement.  We can all play that kind of game. If I wanted to make a sweeping unsubstantiated generalisation I could declare that the working class are too thick to understand brexit.  But I don't see the world as simple black and white like you do. I know full well that is not the case.  I certainly don't believe it's "very much middle class who have anxiety about brexit".  There will be a high number of working class people in London and the South East right now who will be very worried about Brexit. Same in Scotland and Wales. Same in Leeds and Manchester in fact anywhere where all the other 48% of the population who didn't want the thing in the first place reside.  There will be a hell of a lot of agricultural working class who are extremely worried right now about their jobs and livelihoods when their subsidies all go to pot.  There will be significant amount of working class haulage workers, travel and leisure workers, distribution workers, construction workers, contractors and administrators who, if they have any connection either through their employer, subcontractor or supply chain with a foreign jurisdiction, are all going to be affected by the changes that could come in January 2021 and will quite rightly have concern about that.  There are plenty of retiree working class who have have either holiday home, timeshare, caravans or residential property abroad who will also be affected by the changes and will have concerns over effects on their pension and healthcare, insurance and travel freedoms.   On the flip side of your inaccurate sweeping statement I will put money that there are a lot of middle class, middle England, County set who could not give two hoots about brexit. I'm alright Jack mentality can apply to any grade not just a single one.  Bringing class war into this is far too simplistic. It affects us all and whether you are terrified what's going to happen or elated - it covers the entire spectrum.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Magilla   510 #490 Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Car Boot said: Brexit is very much a middle class anxiety.  Working class people moved on from Brexit long ago. How can the working class move on from something that in terms of the economy and business (i.e their work), largely hasn't happened yet?  Like saying you're moving on from a car crash that'll happen next week  A daft statement.  In reality, they haven't moved on, quite the opposite: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/support-for-brexit-is-collapsing-poll/26/06/ Edited August 13, 2020 by Magilla Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
whiteowl   54 #491 Posted August 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Magilla said: How can the working class move on from something that in terms of the economy and business (i.e their work), largely hasn't happened yet?  Like saying you're moving on from a car crash that'll happen next week  A daft statement.  In reality, they haven't moved on, quite the opposite: https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/support-for-brexit-is-collapsing-poll/26/06/ To be honest I'm not surprised.  Having said that, I think, as Loob has suggested previously, that we do need to leave and find the grassy uplands are just a crappy desert.  Too many people in this country still think we are still an empire and think that just because we are British it makes us special. Times move on and we need to as well. Perhaps a bit of humble pie will do us good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Lockjaw   11 #492 Posted August 14, 2020 14 hours ago, ECCOnoob said: Wow. That is a hell of a generalisation to be making. I'd like to see your evidence for that statement.  We can all play that kind of game. If I wanted to make a sweeping unsubstantiated generalisation I could declare that the working class are too thick to understand brexit.  But I don't see the world as simple black and white like you do. I know full well that is not the case.  I certainly don't believe it's "very much middle class who have anxiety about brexit".  There will be a high number of working class people in London and the South East right now who will be very worried about Brexit. Same in Scotland and Wales. Same in Leeds and Manchester in fact anywhere where all the other 48% of the population who didn't want the thing in the first place reside.  There will be a hell of a lot of agricultural working class who are extremely worried right now about their jobs and livelihoods when their subsidies all go to pot.  There will be significant amount of working class haulage workers, travel and leisure workers, distribution workers, construction workers, contractors and administrators who, if they have any connection either through their employer, subcontractor or supply chain with a foreign jurisdiction, are all going to be affected by the changes that could come in January 2021 and will quite rightly have concern about that.  There are plenty of retiree working class who have have either holiday home, timeshare, caravans or residential property abroad who will also be affected by the changes and will have concerns over effects on their pension and healthcare, insurance and travel freedoms.   On the flip side of your inaccurate sweeping statement I will put money that there are a lot of middle class, middle England, County set who could not give two hoots about brexit. I'm alright Jack mentality can apply to any grade not just a single one.  Bringing class war into this is far too simplistic. It affects us all and whether you are terrified what's going to happen or elated - it covers the entire spectrum.  I'll add to that that there are vaste swathes of so-called "working class" hard line brexiters who are absolutely paranoid that their precious brexit is going to be stolen from them. So much so that any challenging of the current government is seen by them purely as an anti-brexit move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...