Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Longcol 604]

19 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

I'm a bit confused by all the outcry of today that somehow the country is suddenly going to fall apart by the introduction of this 'revolutionary' Points Based System, (I say revolutionary, yet the UK has been running a PBS system for the last decade or so, introduced by the Blair Govt.). 

 

The new PBS scheme appears to be less stringent than the current system, why A-level qualifications required rather than a degree qualification & no need by a UK employer to prove they have advertised a vacancy to the UK population before hand to try & fill the vacancy with a UK national. 

 

If I've read the papers right today & listened to the news reports correctly, all those EU workers who are currently employed in the UK, (not here to do us a favour or out the goodness of their hearts but because we're obviously paying higher salaries then other places in the EU), can continue to work beyond 31/12/20 without any problems, as long as they register their status in the UK.  So no worker or their employer, need worry about losing either the job or the worker. 

 

EU workers can continue to arrive in the UK up until 31/12/20 & register to stay beyond this date.  In fact any EU national who has been here for 5 years or more, can apply for residency. 

Whereas all UK nationals work to do us all a favour or out of the goodness of their hearts .........................................................

 

[Baron99 801]

8 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Whereas all UK nationals work to do us all a favour or out of the goodness of their hearts .........................................................

 

You missed the bit about us clearly & obviously paying higher salaries in the UK than for similar roles in other EU countries then?  Or even running a successful economy which allows such roles to flourish. 

 

3 million EU nationals based in the UK, most of who are working don't lie. 

[Westie1889 0]

There will be issues with this policy no doubt, but hopefully the authorities will have the sense to be flexible where required when problems become apparent - especially around Social care.

However, there is also a bigger longer-term economic change that this is part of.

European migrant workers have given a lot to this country, but the opportunity to use this cheaper labour has been massively exploited by business.

In the relevant sectors it has driven down wages, job security (zero hours contracts, gig economy etc) and necessitates tax and benefit support from the government for those struggling as a result.
it (along with the financial crisis) has led to a collapse in training budgets and businesses investing in people for the long-term.

It also drives down the productivity of our economy as it’s cheaper to throw labour at a problem rather than invest and develop long-term efficient solution through automation or new systems and processes.

The more productive the economy is the higher wages and taxes will grow.
The more automation in an economy the higher the level of skilled jobs and wages (Germany is the most highly automated economy in the world).

If we want a higher wage, higher skilled economy with job security this process has to be gone through unfortunately.

Sorry for the boring economics on this, I get all the concerns about xenophobia etc and I too have many Polish friends who are great people and hard workers but for the long-term benefit of the country we need to go through this (painful) process. If we take the Brexit issue away from this and just think about what type of economy we want in the future it makes sense, not just for people born here but also migrants who want to build their lives here and not struggle on low wages.

 

Just a bit of real world context from a national business I used to work in that employed over 20,000 staff, many thousands of these not too far from here.
15 years ago a full time warehouse operative earned £22,000 plus benefits, overtime etc.

That job now is only guaranteed 12 hours per week and even if they get full hours it’s just £18k per year.

A huge decrease when you take into account inflation, the impact on the surrounding area has been dire as the business is a major employer.

 

I used to sit in meetings with the logistics director about annual pay awards and their stance was always why do we need to increase wages when we can get more migrant workers in on less money?
 

A terrible attitude to have with no concern for their people and the job they were doing but unfortunately one repeated across the country.

 

Also just for further context I am not a union person or supporter and still have a Senior role in a major business today, I am pro-business but from an insider perspective people are being exploited and freedom of movement has been a huge part of this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[L00b 441]

52 minutes ago, Westie1889 said:

(...)

 

Just a bit of real world context from a national business I used to work in that employed over 20,000 staff, many thousands of these not too far from here.
15 years ago a full time warehouse operative earned £22,000 plus benefits, overtime etc.

That job now is only guaranteed 12 hours per week and even if they get full hours it’s just £18k per year.

A huge decrease when you take into account inflation, the impact on the surrounding area has been dire as the business is a major employer.

 

(...)

The background to Brexit explained in an anecdotal nutshell.

 

(I'm skipping on the deleterious effects of ever-more sophisticated tax avoidance over the years by the businesses/shareholders downstream of this 'value creation', all in the context of severe funding cuts on education and assorted other labour force upskilling services by successive governments, for the sake of simplicity: they are compounding factors, amongst so many others).

 

Looking at the news and social media since yesterday, after Patel's kite-flying, UK plc looks like it is finding its voice at last. Far too little, far too late: Brexit is an ideological war, with economic activity as acceptable collateral damage.

 

Thanks for the post and points well appreciated, Westie1889.

Edited February 20, 2020 by L00b

[retep 68]

11 hours ago, Pettytom said:

Roughly 7%.

 

Pritti Patel claimed that we have 8 000 000 economically inactive people of working age. Which is roughly 13% of the UK population, and nearer to 25% of those of working age.

 

So, I fail to see your point. Not for the first time.

 

Will you be off to Lincolnshire to pick caulis?

If the pay is £23,000 I think there will be a long line to wait in.

[Pettytom 1]

3 hours ago, West 77 said:

The Conservative party have made it clear since the referendum result that free movement of people will end after Britain leaves the EU. The electorate had a chance to prevent a Conservative Government ending free movement in December last year but chose to give them five years in office.  A new immigration policy that favours skilled workers coming from overseas to fill vacancies makes more sense than favouring unskilled overseas workers.  If you are worried about a shortage of unskilled workers in care homes then I suggest you do your bit and apply to fill a vacancy.

 

I feel very happy that because we have a Conservative majority Government Britain officially left the EU on 31st January.  I look forward to 31st December when the transitional period ends along with the ending of free movement of people.

Meanwhile, care homes could well be in crisis.

 

Im delighted that you are able to reconcile yourself with that. Despite being part of the cause.

[RJRB 688]

https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1-584213ee7b2

 

Germany might have the most technologically based industry in the EU but post war growth has been largely based on the necessity to import foreign labour to fill blue collar work and this continues to be the case.

They have the biggest proportion of existing foreign workers and see the need to recruit more from outside the EU

[Baron99 801]

Interesting proposal / idea being touted by current London Mayor, (& soon to be London Mayoral candidates with the election coming up soon), Saqiq Khan,  remain campaigner & clearly made with the London electorate as his audience. 

 

Khan is proposing that those UK nationals (Londoners but presumably it could be extended to anyone / anywhere in the UK), who didn't want Brexit, be allowed to apply for Associate Citizenship of the EU?  This would give you the previously held rights that you had before Brexit. 

 

Apparently, Khan has been to Brussels & received a favourable response from the likes of Guy Verhofstadt, (recently of the European Parliament's Brexit Steering Committee), who believes such Associate Citizenship would be covered under the Maastricht Treaty. 

 

So there might be a chink of light for some but just as the country is trying to put a sticking plaster on the great wound to start to make things better, (apparently people's concerns / worries about Brexit are starting to wane with the environment now our biggest worry (latest Ipsos MORI poll - how quickly we move on once decisive action has been taken?), Dr Khan decides to re-open the wound. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Baron99

[L00b 441]

"Associate Citizenship of the EU" is legal nonsense on a stick, and long debunked.

 

Verhofstadt knows this well, he's just humouring Khan on the day.

[retep 68]

1 hour ago, RJRB said:

https://www.ft.com/content/e59457d4-2002-11ea-b8a1-584213ee7b2

 

Germany might have the most technologically based industry in the EU but post war growth has been largely based on the necessity to import foreign labour to fill blue collar work and this continues to be the case.

They have the biggest proportion of existing foreign workers and see the need to recruit more from outside the EU

Plus the massive handout the UK gave them thank you Mr Hurd, not.

[melthebell 864]

42 minutes ago, retep said:

Plus the massive handout the UK gave them thank you Mr Hurd, not.

awwww diddums

[retep 68]

1 minute ago, melthebell said:

awwww diddums

Nice to see you are not worried by Hurd giving away £3.6 trillion you must have money to burn.