Consequences Of Brexit [Part 9] Read First Post Before Posting

[Robin-H 11]

23 minutes ago, L00b said:

Well, that would depend on whether the border is between two Schengen'd EU countries, or not.

 

Given that the UK never was Schengen'd, that is why you would never 'swan' into any EU country, coming from the UK.

 

But I 'swan', without waving any kind of documentation whatsoever, between 3 and sometimes even 4 countries, on the same day, every other week. Breakfast in Lux, grocery shopping in Belgium or Germany, afternoon stroll and evening dinner in France. A convenience withdrawn from resident Brits after January, by the way (since they'll become subject to 3rd country national treatment for immigration purposes, in all EU states but their EU state of residence as of 31/12/20).

 

You're not be bothered, but by that token I doubt you've given much thought to the thousands of Brits who'll be forced to queue for hours to get to, and home from, work in Gibraltar come January. Not to worry, the Spaniards can have it back before long 

 

 

Genuine question. 

 

By resident Brits, do you mean Brits that are residents in the EU27 countries (rather than resident in the UK)? After 31/12/20, what mechanism will prevent them from breakfasting in Lux, shopping in Belgium, dinner in France etc, or is the convenience being able to do that without documentation? After 31/12/20, what documentation will be required, and where will it be checked, as there are no borders within the Schengen area? 

[Baron99 778]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

Well, that would depend on whether the border is between two Schengen'd EU countries, or not.

 

Given that the UK never was Schengen'd, that is why you would never 'swan' into any EU country, coming from the UK.

 

But I 'swan', without waving any kind of documentation whatsoever, between 3 and sometimes even 4 countries, on the same day, every other week. Breakfast in Lux, grocery shopping in Belgium or Germany, afternoon stroll and evening dinner in France. A convenience withdrawn from resident Brits after January, by the way (since they'll become subject to 3rd country national treatment for immigration purposes, in all EU states but their EU state of residence as of 31/12/20).

 

You're not be bothered, but by that token I doubt you've given much thought to the thousands of Brits who'll be forced to queue for hours to get to, and home from, work in Gibraltar come January. Not to worry, the Spaniards can have it back before long 

 

 

And given that negotiations are yet to take place, where is your evidence for all the above? 

 

And when I talk of evidence I mean actual legislation, not some sound bite, rhetoric comment from any two-bit politician, (including our own, some of whom are still miffed that the UK has started the leaving process), trying to act like a hardliner, mainly for domestic consumption, equating to who can pee up the political wall the highest? 

 

Come on, provide details of the legislation that UK resident citizens of the EU will be 'inconveinienced' come 31/12/20, whether they be in central Europe or down in Gibraltar? 

 

Of course, any Brit who is married to an EU Nat & any offspring, even if they were born in the UK, will have full EU rights of the EU spouse, should they be resident in the EU spouse's country, including FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT & the RIGHT TO WORK in any EU country. 

 

https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463&langId=en

 

And the rights of Brits who are married to EU nats living in EU countries are NOT going to change, post 31/12/20.

 

Of course those Brits who are not married but have been residents in the EU for 5 years or more & meet the required criteria, could make life easier for themselves & apply for residency / nationality? 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Baron99

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Robin-H said:

Genuine question. 

 

By resident Brits, do you mean Brits that are residents in the EU27 countries (rather than resident in the UK)? After 31/12/20, what mechanism will prevent them from breakfasting in Lux, shopping in Belgium, dinner in France etc, or is the convenience being able to do that without documentation? After 31/12/20, what documentation will be required, and where will it be checked, as there are no borders within the Schengen area? 

Indeed I mean Brits resident in EU27 countries. Thought it was clear, but well.

 

Post transition period, the mechanism and documentation will be per the standard provisions of the Schengen agreement applicable to non-Union cfamily members as codified in Directive 2004/38/EC (refer Articles 5, 10 to start with, others as well).

 

No residency permit, means no itineranting across countries, and residency permits for non-Union nationals are a national competence of member states (as human right/family lawyers of non-EU immigrants in UK know only too well, what with the UK having one of the most hostile regimes for family reunification, that Directive notwithstanding indeed).

 

Whilst Schengen might have translated into removing border huts and barriers, don't kid yourself that this means no customs or border guards: these days they are all mobile, well resourced and equipped, and with the same powers of arrest, but higher powers of search and seizure, than police forces. Ordinarily to be be found 7 days a week in and around every other motorway rest area, within a few miles of each 'border', random-spot-checking artics, cars, camper vans, etc.

 

As regards Gibraltar, the EU has got Spain's back through the nehotiation mandate. Recently in the news.

 

I haven't made a distinction about Brits married to EU27 and those not, (i) because all UKinEU have been in the same boat of being thrown under the Brexit bus without a care by anyone since 2017, (ii) because they are not a majority amongst the 1.5m UKinEU, and (iii) because they are in only marginally better a position relative to the others, subject to -as you pointed out- residing in the country of their EU spouse. Not all are, by far.

Edited February 18, 2020 by L00b

[taxman 12]

No more Polish plumbers or people who can't speak the Queen's English under new Govt proposals.

 

Looks like the plucky Brits will finally be able to fill all those meat packing jobs and jobs wiping the bottoms of people in care homes that they have wanted so much for so long.

 

 

[Robin-H 11]

2 hours ago, taxman said:

No more Polish plumbers or people who can't speak the Queen's English under new Govt proposals.

 

Looks like the plucky Brits will finally be able to fill all those meat packing jobs and jobs wiping the bottoms of people in care homes that they have wanted so much for so long.

 

 

I've never really understood why it's seen as morally acceptable to effectively import workers from other countries to do the jobs that 'we' think are above us to do, like we still had an empire. 

 

(Also, nowhere in the proposals does it say no more Polish plumbers. If they have a job in the UK, then they will be able to work in the EU). 

[tinfoilhat 11]

8 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

I've never really understood why it's seen as morally acceptable to effectively import workers from other countries to do the jobs that 'we' think are above us to do, like we still had an empire. 

 

(Also, nowhere in the proposals does it say no more Polish plumbers. If they have a job in the UK, then they will be able to work in the EU). 

It's morally (and legally) acceptable to pay somebody a wage so low they have to claim in work benefits to keep a roof over their head. 

[L00b 441]

37 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

It's morally (and legally) acceptable to pay somebody a wage so low they have to claim in work benefits to keep a roof over their head. 

Applause 

 

Looking at the proposal, I think the reciprocity angle (re.Brits going to the EU27) might have passed the government by, as usual.

 

I certainly hope none of you have kids looking to emigrate to the EU for studying or work. But if you do, then I hope that you are part of this 'wealthy elite', which the Leavers keep voting for more of 

[Robin-H 11]

41 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

It's morally (and legally) acceptable to pay somebody a wage so low they have to claim in work benefits to keep a roof over their head. 

Two wrongs don't make a right. What do you class as a wage that is too low? 

 

 

[melthebell 862]

24 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

Two wrongs don't make a right. What do you class as a wage that is too low? 

 

 

He's just said? Where you have to claim benefits while in work?

[Robin-H 11]

3 minutes ago, melthebell said:

He's just said? Where you have to claim benefits while in work?

That's not a figure. Which benefits? I'm presuming working tax credits? 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Robin-H

[melthebell 862]

2 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

That's not a figure. Which benefits? I'm presuming working tax credits? 

Yup, is it morally right that you need to claim a benefit when in work because firms pay so little? They make a big thing about getting people off benefits and into work.

i presume wages will rise when all the low wage immigrants have been stopped?

[tinfoilhat 11]

7 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

That's not a figure. Which benefits? I'm presuming working tax credits? 

I haven't got a figure. In work benefits like tax credits and housing benefits cost millions.

 

But figures? Haven't got any, didn't think there would be test afterwards.