Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, RiffRaff said:

So why isn't it "HC2"?

I don't know, I didn't name it.

 

We could have called it "let's build a new line to increase capacity but use crappy old slow trains so ladies don't faint". But I don't think that sounds as swish when you have the Chinese with trains doing 247mph now.

[Baron99 795]

6 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

It's about capacity, not speed.

I'll give you the increased capacity but the main point of the HS2 publicity still seems to be the reduced times it will take to get to London. The current rail line infrastructure isn't going to disappear, the HS will run in tandem, over on its own dedicated line as far as I can see. 

 

Ignoring the Sheffield angle, this morning it was stated that you could have the standard, over-crowded rolling stock coming down the west coast line from Scotland (Glasgow) to Manchester, then transfer to the HS line for your final high speed journey into the capital. 

 

And if its going to benefit the north, why leave out the likes of Doncaster, Newcastle & Edinburgh? 

 

Why this mania for the nacessity of a high speed line to London?  I can understand a substantial number of people commuting on a daily basis into London from Birmingham, Bristol & the south coast but the number wanting to commute from Sheffield on a daily basis must be minimal? 

 

Whenever I've seen passengers moan about overcrowding, it's not been on the likes of the Master Cutler but on the routes 30 odd miles or so from London & commuters trying to get to their work in Sheffield from the likes of Leeds, Manchester, Huddersfield & vice-versa.  This is where any improvements should have started.  At a more regional level. 

 

And who says we will need this increased capacity in 20+ years, given that many organisations are now turning to increased use of IT, using  cheaper, more environmentally options such as teleconferencing & allowing staff to work from home?

 

One of my grandchildren, works for the Home Office in Sheffield & they all but  stopped the travelling to & from London years ago, except for the all but the really important meetings.  Many of the staff now have access to HO laptops with the option of working from home. 

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

I'll give you the increased capacity but the main point of the HS2 publicity still seems to be the reduced times it will take to get to London. The current rail line infrastructure isn't going to disappear, the HS will run in tandem, over on its own dedicated line as far as I can see. 

 

Ignoring the Sheffield angle, this morning it was stated that you could have the standard, over-crowded rolling stock coming down the west coast line from Scotland (Glasgow) to Manchester, then transfer to the HS line for your final high speed journey into the capital. 

 

And if its going to benefit the north, why leave out the likes of Doncaster, Newcastle & Edinburgh? 

 

Why this mania for the nacessity of a high speed line to London?  I can understand a substantial number of people commuting on a daily basis into London from Birmingham, Bristol & the south coast but the number wanting to commute from Sheffield on a daily basis must be minimal? 

 

Whenever I've seen passengers moan about overcrowding, it's not been on the likes of the Master Cutler but on the routes 30 odd miles or so from London & commuters trying to get to their work in Sheffield from the likes of Leeds, Manchester, Huddersfield & vice-versa.  This is where any improvements should have started.  At a more regional level. 

 

And who says we will need this increased capacity in 20+ years, given that many organisations are now turning to increased use of IT, using  cheaper, more environmentally options such as teleconferencing & allowing staff to work from home?

 

One of my grandchildren, works for the Home Office in Sheffield & they all but  stopped the travelling to & from London years ago, except for the all but the really important meetings.  Many of the staff now have access to HO laptops with the option of working from home. 

Really? What will the population be in 20 years time? I'd guess you can add another 7m people - and another, what 3m cars?

 

We didn't need an M1 in 1923 when Lord montegue came up with idea, and we didn't need one in 1949 either when legislation was passed. We need better public transport infrastructure. 

[Longcol 602]

4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Really? What will the population be in 20 years time? I'd guess you can add another 7m people - and another, what 3m cars?

 

We didn't need an M1 in 1923 when Lord montegue came up with idea, and we didn't need one in 1949 either when legislation was passed. We need better public transport infrastructure. 

And one we can afford.

 

£300 million a mile for HS? I'm sure we can build a lot of alternatives at a fraction of the cost.

[ECCOnoob 1,043]

Yippie for the civil servants.

 

Meanwhile back in the real world the rest of us don't all have the luxury options of sitting at home in our pants attending 'online meetings'.   

 

Some of us actually have to get out there and meet people face-to-face.  Some of us have to go and inspect, interview and undertake work on sites.  Some of us have to attend inquests and court hearings at many venues around the country  (including London).   

 

This revolution of the online technology does not eliminate the need for travel.  It does not replace the requirement for people required to physically be in the presence of or physically required to do actions on a site.  Travel will always exist and there will always be ever increasing numbers of people doing it.

 

People stupidly query 'what's the big deal about shaving 20-minutes off a journey  to London''.    But the entire project is so much more.

 

As someone who has to train travel regularly it  could make a massive difference.   With the right connections and a combination of both HS2 and existing rail I may end up with an ability to shave off was previously a 3-4 hour journey into half the time.  That in turn could make what would be another overnight stay in to a one day job.

 

Add on the obvious benefit that it will improving the capacity on the existing rail network -  it's about time we stop with the whining rhetoric and get behind such a project.

 

Given the wholly disproportionate amount of money spent on travel in the South East it's damn right something is finally coming our way.

 

I just hope the corbynmentalists and hug a tree brigade don't screw this up.

[Padders 2,866]

9 hours ago, Longcol said:

And one we can afford.

 

£300 million a mile for HS? I'm sure we can build a lot of alternatives at a fraction of the cost.

Let the Chinese build it at a fraction of the cost..

Don't forget the Chinese built the railroads through the wild west, over mountains, rivers, and built tunnels..

Using a pick and shovel.

[taxman 12]

9 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

I just hope the corbynmentalists and hug a tree brigade don't screw this up.

That's an odd comment. Most Labourites, whether Corbyn fans or not, seem to be supportive of HS2. The Unions are all for it, the Northern Mayors and councils are all for it.....who are these "corbynmentalists" of whom you speak?

[L00b 441]

44 minutes ago, Padders said:

Let the Chinese build it at a fraction of the cost..

Don't forget the Chinese built the railroads through the wild west, over mountains, rivers, and built tunnels..

Using a pick and shovel.

You need to update your worldview, Padders: these days, the Chinese are the moneybags doing the infrastructural financing, not the dogsbodies doing the infrastructural building anymore. See eg Hinkley Point C.

 

And -I may be wrong about this, but- didn't the UK just Brexit, and isn't it just in the middle of rejigging its immigration procedure, because it has decided that it doesn't want to import unskilled labourers for such infrastructural projects, fruit picking, etc. anymore?

 

Here's an idea for you: get chain gangs to build HS2. Solves the UK's dire prisons & rehabilitation system issues, and mitigates budget overruns all in one. Of course, to do that, first you need to bin the HRA and leave the jurisdiction of the ECtHR. I think that's not too far down the line, with the current collection of fascists in power.

Edited February 12, 2020 by L00b

[ECCOnoob 1,043]

36 minutes ago, taxman said:

That's an odd comment. Most Labourites, whether Corbyn fans or not, seem to be supportive of HS2. The Unions are all for it, the Northern Mayors and councils are all for it.....who are these "corbynmentalists" of whom you speak?

The ones who live in the protective bubble of the M25 who hypocritically enjoy the spoils of TFLs fantastically cheap and efficient public transport, smugly hop on their easy, quick low carbon emitting train jaunts to Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam whilst seemingly taking all steps to derail (haha!) any attempts to bring that sort of heavy investment infrastructure northwards -just in case the contractors happen to break a twig or disrupt a few butterflies.

 

....those types of people.

 

IMO corbynmentalists and (now former) REAL labour supporters are two very different things.   

 

Yes, I know there are a few exceptions but let's face it - Manchester is just desperately trying to be London 2 and Liverpool are so ingrained that they would vote for a turd wearing a red rosette.   

Edited February 12, 2020 by ECCOnoob

[alchresearch 214]

58 minutes ago, Padders said:

Let the Chinese build it at a fraction of the cost..

Don't forget the Chinese built the railroads through the wild west, over mountains, rivers, and built tunnels..

Using a pick and shovel.

Yes, and:

Look At All The Major Chinese Bridges That Have Collapsed In The Recent Years

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-bridge-collapses-2012-8?r=US&IR=T

[Padders 2,866]

16 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

Yes, and:

Look At All The Major Chinese Bridges That Have Collapsed In The Recent Years

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-bridge-collapses-2012-8?r=US&IR=T

Fair doe's Al, mind you the great wall is still standing, how many years ?

Seriously, Iv'e always admired the Chinese people.

[crazyhorse 37]

19 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

The ones who live in the protective bubble of the M25 who hypocritically enjoy the spoils of TFLs fantastically cheap and efficient public transport, smugly hop on their easy, quick low carbon emitting train jaunts to Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam whilst seemingly taking all steps to derail (haha!) any attempts to bring that sort of heavy investment infrastructure northwards -just in case the contractors happen to break a twig or disrupt a few butterflies.

 

....those types of people.

 

IMO corbynmentalists and (now former) REAL labour supporters are two very different things.   

 

Yes, I know there are a few exceptions but let's face it - Manchester is just desperately trying to be London 2 and Liverpool are so ingrained that they would vote for a turd wearing a red rosette.   

Hear hear.

 

The sooner we get some heavy infrastructure investment in the North and the good jobs that come with it...the better.

 

I spent the first 10 years of my working life just outside Heathrow and Gatwick and the place was overheating way back then.

Moving North for a much better quality of life was the smartest thing I ever did and it is good to see that more and more people in their 30s and above are voting with their feet and doing the same.

 

Although I won't use it as much at my age to get to London, than I would have done when younger...in my opinion the main benefit of HS2 will be the increased capacity...particularly at Birmingham New Street, a station I am very familiar with.

 

This is the busiest station outside London and only has 4 tracks at each end for all inbound and outbound traffic.

There is absolutely no chance of increasing this, unless you blow up the Rotunda.

 

I used to live in Lichfield and studied in Birmingham and my family frequently travel down to the West Country via BNS.

Capacity there has always been a problem in my experience.

 

Moving London bound trains a few hundred metres down the round sounds like it will free up a lot of capacity for local and cross country services...and perhaps more nighttime freight.

 

Unfortunately the population of this country will continue to rise (as younger workers are imported to support an ageing population)...so we will need all the infrastructure we can get.

 

It must be in the North and Midlands however...London has no future as a livable city with a good quality of life.

The city is slowly sinking and climate change will eventually make the South East unpleasant to live in.

 

I honestly think the North has a golden future ahead of it itself...and it is good to see it starting to understand it's strengths and beginning to push hard for a greater share of national resources.