When The Robots Arrive And The Elites Don't Need Us As Much What Will Happen?

[hobinfoot 25]

On 11/01/2020 at 13:31, carosio said:

Reminds me of a well-known saying among Russians back in communist times: "they pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work".

Here is another one. The rich would have to eat money but fortunately the poor provide food.

[melthebell 862]

20 hours ago, apelike said:

Unfortunately there seem to be too many people being taken in by the AI/Robotic hype of the past decade and are willing to believe it to be a real threat. 

We already have self service checkouts in supermarkets, pickers and robots in places like amazon etc, theres been trialed self driving cars / taxis / lorries, we have drones that are being trialed and thought about for deliveries etc, and i read something yesterday about chinese police with rifles that use a laser that can burn bodies? (thats on the road to more robotic armies)

[bendix 10]

On ‎11‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 11:58, ChrisIB said:

As artificial intelligence and robotics replace humans in the work force, the elites won't need our labour as much as they used to.

As resources dwindle and the population rises might we be surplus to requirements?

A stretch, but perhaps in the not too distant future there will be a manipulated war or pandemic to thin the herd.

No offence, but this is utter tosh.

 

What happened when the original luddites were worried about the onset of industrialisation and mechanisation?  Simple.  The economy not only expanded, but it also grew more complex and varied.  The population exploded and - big surprise - jobs were aplenty, incomes increased, lifestyles and living conditions got immeasurably better as EVERYONE benefited from the economic boom.

 

What makes you think the impact of the fourth industrial revolution will be any different to the impact of the first?

[melthebell 862]

44 minutes ago, bendix said:

No offence, but this is utter tosh.

 

What happened when the original luddites were worried about the onset of industrialisation and mechanisation?  Simple.  The economy not only expanded, but it also grew more complex and varied.  The population exploded and - big surprise - jobs were aplenty, incomes increased, lifestyles and living conditions got immeasurably better as EVERYONE benefited from the economic boom.

 

What makes you think the impact of the fourth industrial revolution will be any different to the impact of the first?

when you read them start with the term "the elites" you know what side their bread is buttered, funnily enough i was gonna mention the luddites lol

[ChrisIB 11]

No, not a political statement. Previous industrial change radically altered society and I am just interested in how the powerful will embrace roboticisiation.
Power I believe will become concentrated and perhaps democracy may not adapt.

On an individual level, I agree it will give freedoms and opportunities not seen before.
I work in IT, with some AI (though perhaps artificial stupidity is currently a better term) and breakthroughs will give whichever countries huge advantage.

 

A scenario (bear with me):

If talking about time you need to make a distinction between physical time and a creature's sense of time.
Most creatures have self awareness, it seems to be a biological brain construct, but the self awareness of a bird may let it experience time more quickly and be able to evade those 'slower' than it (even though both have the same neuronal speed).
Once the mechanism of self awareness is understood, any  culture would also be able to scientifically adjust the rate that time is experienced.

And the self awareness of an AI? time for them must seem to be almost stopped.

[bendix 10]

7 hours ago, ChrisIB said:

No, not a political statement. Previous industrial change radically altered society and I am just interested in how the powerful will embrace roboticisiation.
Power I believe will become concentrated and perhaps democracy may not adapt.

On an individual level, I agree it will give freedoms and opportunities not seen before.
I work in IT, with some AI (though perhaps artificial stupidity is currently a better term) and breakthroughs will give whichever countries huge advantage.

 

A scenario (bear with me):

If talking about time you need to make a distinction between physical time and a creature's sense of time.
Most creatures have self awareness, it seems to be a biological brain construct, but the self awareness of a bird may let it experience time more quickly and be able to evade those 'slower' than it (even though both have the same neuronal speed).
Once the mechanism of self awareness is understood, any  culture would also be able to scientifically adjust the rate that time is experienced.

And the self awareness of an AI? time for them must seem to be almost stopped.

this is just a rambling world salad of half thought through  propositions.  
 

if you’re going to make a claim that robotics will cause power to be centralised, hoe about explaining why that will happen. What forces will shape the development?  Then at least we can assess your thinking and agree or disagree. 
 

as it is you’ve simply made random statements with no backing evidence or argument. 

16 hours ago, melthebell said:

when you read them start with the term "the elites" you know what side their bread is buttered, funnily enough i was gonna mention the luddites lol

The problem these days is that when people use the term ‘elites’ you have a sense of what sort of person they are, but you can no longer tell if they are far right or far left nutjobs. 

[Halibut 12]

39 minutes ago, bendix said:

this is just a rambling world salad of half thought through  propositions.  
 

if you’re going to make a claim that robotics will cause power to be centralised, hoe about explaining why that will happen. What forces will shape the development?  Then at least we can assess your thinking and agree or disagree. 
 

as it is you’ve simply made random statements with no backing evidence or argument. 

The problem these days is that when people use the term ‘elites’ you have a sense of what sort of person they are, but you can no longer tell if they are far right or far left nutjobs. 

word salad

[max 13]

11 hours ago, ChrisIB said:

 

And the self awareness of an AI? time for them must seem to be almost stopped.

A cyclical argument there, unless we can prove a machine has self awareness then the concept of time to it is meaningless.

 

Plus, as we are talking about computers here then, unless computer architecture has drastically altered, on each cycle of multi-tasking cpus everything is discarded, albeit stored in registers, until the next cycle for that particular process. Time will not only have been stopped but, if there are multiple processors and no guarantee that the same processor will pick up a particular  process, no continuity will exist.

Perhaps.

[ChrisIB 11]

Quote

this is just a rambling world salad of half thought through  propositions.

The subjective experience of time does appear to vary, generally in proportion to metabolic rate:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/166694-small-animals-see-the-world-in-slow-motion-or-why-your-puppy-is-so-hyperactive

Quote

The problem these days is that when people use the term ‘elites’ you have a sense of what sort of person they are, but you can no longer tell if they are far right or far left nutjobs. 

That’s called an ad hominem attack, which is another logical fallacy.