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Bus Fares Up Again,Why?

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1 minute ago, Retro Queen said:

But surely something needs to be done. Everyone in the city needs to get around. We don't all have cars.

 

My next bus has failed to turn up now, this is two in a row. I wouldn't mind if they were every ten minutes but this is half an hour service so two missing means one full hour between buses. I keep putting in complaints to First but nothing gets done.

 

I am sitting in a cafe again keeping warm while waiting for the bus. This is fine as I like cafes and they are part of my social life but I was going straight home from work tonight and I am delayed due to the bus service. Its getting very stressful. What do we have to do? I appreciate your help and concern but what can I do short of moving to a better bus route and I don't want to do that as I only moved a year ago and I like where I live.

I agree totally that 'something needs to be done', but what? We obviously suffer the same problems at this side of the city too - and I have a complaint in with First on a specific route/running board question, to which I have been promised a response by 28/02.

 

As you say, we don't all have cars, and when three buses in a row fail to run, it is beyond a joke. It has come to the point now that if I have a booked train to catch I have to walk (15 minutes) to the local station and spend up to an hour at Sheffield Midland to ensure I catch it - ludicrous!

 

I'll try and get back on the case with Olive Grove, but I'm currently busy with family business.

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1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

I agree totally that 'something needs to be done', but what? We obviously suffer the same problems at this side of the city too - and I have a complaint in with First on a specific route/running board question, to which I have been promised a response by 28/02.

 

As you say, we don't all have cars, and when three buses in a row fail to run, it is beyond a joke. It has come to the point now that if I have a booked train to catch I have to walk (15 minutes) to the local station and spend up to an hour at Sheffield Midland to ensure I catch it - ludicrous!

 

I'll try and get back on the case with Olive Grove, but I'm currently busy with family business.

Which bus route do you live on? It is getting beyond a joke. Its getting where its stressful just thinking about getting from A to B. I used to live on the 83 route which is good as it has both First and Stagecoach and the buses are about every fifteen minutes during the day. I still prefer where I live now though, I just wish the buses were better.

 

Thanks for looking into it, I appreciate family business has to come first.

 

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@Retro Queen I'm at the opposite end of the 97/98 route to you. The only other route we have to town is the Bakewell-Sheffield Interchange 218 but as that now misses out a massive chunk of the A621 road to Sheffield centre it is not a real option unless you only need the city centre.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Retro Queen said:

They should put more buses on these lacking service routes generally and take from the routes that have a bus every time you blink.

 

I appreciate its not acceptable but where are these extra buses coming from? 

 

They cost anywhere from 190k to 270k depending on model and features. 

 

Looking at recent filings, First South Yorkshire isn't making half of one new bus in terms of profit and has made losses in previous years. 

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26 minutes ago, Resident said:

I appreciate its not acceptable but where are these extra buses coming from? 

 

They cost anywhere from 190k to 270k depending on model and features. 

 

Looking at recent filings, First South Yorkshire isn't making half of one new bus in terms of profit and has made losses in previous years. 

Simple, they should take some of the buses off the routes that have plenty on that route and put them on the lacking ones, they don't have to find more buses.

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7 hours ago, Retro Queen said:

Simple, they should take some of the buses off the routes that have plenty on that route and put them on the lacking ones, they don't have to find more buses.

Who is "they"?

Are "they" going to compensate the bus companies for loss of revenue?

 

What about the passengers?

Less buses=longer journey times and more congestion.

Equals overcrowding, equals more people left at bus stops, equals more car journeys.

 

The bus companies see a demand make a profit from supplying that demand.

Control and financing is done under Government rules making it impractical to tell bus companies outside London, what they can and cannot do.

 

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9 hours ago, Resident said:

I appreciate its not acceptable but where are these extra buses coming from? 

 

They cost anywhere from 190k to 270k depending on model and features. 

 

Looking at recent filings, First South Yorkshire isn't making half of one new bus in terms of profit and has made losses in previous years. 

I think @Retro Queen is saying re-allocate buses from other Sheffield routes, not buy more buses. FSY have a big enough fleet to cover  their registered routes, just not enough serviceable vehicles within that fleet, and as an aside, not enough drivers.

 

There is an enthusiast group I follow (but to protect it. I'm not identifying on here) which I use for a lot of my information, and reading that site, the problem is bad management and maintenance procedures - along with the use of 'old' rolling stock, which is understandable given the low profitability of the FSY profit centre.

9 hours ago, Retro Queen said:

Simple, they should take some of the buses off the routes that have plenty on that route and put them on the lacking ones, they don't have to find more buses.

See answers to Resident, above.

2 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Who is "they"?

Are "they" going to compensate the bus companies for loss of revenue?

 

What about the passengers?

Less buses=longer journey times and more congestion.

Equals overcrowding, equals more people left at bus stops, equals more car journeys.

 

The bus companies see a demand make a profit from supplying that demand.

Control and financing is done under Government rules making it impractical to tell bus companies outside London, what they can and cannot do.

 

'They' are FSY, not some other entity - but as FSY do not have enough serviceable buses (or trained drivers), there is a permanent failure to run the registered routes, and it appears (not proved, but my observations support this assumption), certain routes are protected at the expense of others.

 

I know you have a bit of a 'hobby-horse', but the fact is FSY are badly managed.

 

We get 'end-of-life' buses here in South Yorkshire because of this management failure, which leads to this spiral of despair.

 

I am aware that there is a constant claim that our 'low' fares are a con tributary factor, but as someone who has a hobby of exploring the country by public transport, I think some of this is a red-herring. I have been on buses elsewhere where the 'cost per mile' to the passenger is lower than here in South Yorkshire, and yet the routes are more frequent,   with newer and considerably more reliable rolling stock.

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2 hours ago, RollingJ said:

I think @Retro Queen is saying re-allocate buses from other Sheffield routes, not buy more buses. FSY have a big enough fleet to cover  their registered routes, just not enough serviceable vehicles within that fleet, and as an aside, not enough drivers.

 

There is an enthusiast group I follow (but to protect it. I'm not identifying on here) which I use for a lot of my information, and reading that site, the problem is bad management and maintenance procedures - along with the use of 'old' rolling stock, which is understandable given the low profitability of the FSY profit centre.

See answers to Resident, above.

'They' are FSY, not some other entity - but as FSY do not have enough serviceable buses (or trained drivers), there is a permanent failure to run the registered routes, and it appears (not proved, but my observations support this assumption), certain routes are protected at the expense of others.

 

I know you have a bit of a 'hobby-horse', but the fact is FSY are badly managed.

 

We get 'end-of-life' buses here in South Yorkshire because of this management failure, which leads to this spiral of despair.

 

I am aware that there is a constant claim that our 'low' fares are a con tributary factor, but as someone who has a hobby of exploring the country by public transport, I think some of this is a red-herring. I have been on buses elsewhere where the 'cost per mile' to the passenger is lower than here in South Yorkshire, and yet the routes are more frequent,   with newer and considerably more reliable rolling stock.

There is a cost that is not getting discussed on here that means the cost of providing a service in South Yorkshire is higher than elsewhere. That is the cost of wages. Whilst they are fairly high in South Yorkshire that high wage is not enough to attract staff. This goes back to my previous assertions that there is more to this than wages. There are plenty people who would not drive a bus in Sheffield at any wage. (Myself included). A company that is fortunate enough to operate in a more pleasant environment can pay lower wages and still recruit staff, and as a result operate better vehicles on better frequencies whilst making a good return on their outlay.  I am amongst the first to say that the recent management ( at in particular First) have been poor, it is also a fact that they are operating in a very difficult market where local authorities are failing on their end of deals that are supposed to fill gaps in services and using money to placate some people to give them a quieter life rather than fulfill needs as they are supposed to do.

Work it out, the facts are there. 

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37 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

There is a cost that is not getting discussed on here that means the cost of providing a service in South Yorkshire is higher than elsewhere. That is the cost of wages. Whilst they are fairly high in South Yorkshire that high wage is not enough to attract staff. This goes back to my previous assertions that there is more to this than wages. There are plenty people who would not drive a bus in Sheffield at any wage. (Myself included). A company that is fortunate enough to operate in a more pleasant environment can pay lower wages and still recruit staff, and as a result operate better vehicles on better frequencies whilst making a good return on their outlay.  I am amongst the first to say that the recent management ( at in particular First) have been poor, it is also a fact that they are operating in a very difficult market where local authorities are failing on their end of deals that are supposed to fill gaps in services and using money to placate some people to give them a quieter life rather than fulfill needs as they are supposed to do.

Work it out, the facts are there. 

I don't disagree with any of what you say, but that doesn't explain the problems which occur with depressing regularity on specific routes - which, IMO, is politically driven - but I am prepared to be corrected.

 

With regard to 'my' routes - that I have to use, as there is no viable alternative, there have been three occasions where the service is on a 15 minute schedule during non-peak times and it has been over an hour between actually seeing an 'in service' vehicle from First. One of these times,  it has actually cost me quite a bit, as I had a 'specified train only' rail ticket which I was unable to catch, and had to purchase a full-price ticket for that journey, with no chance of a refund on the outward portion.

 

At other times, I have had to apologise for being late for meetings, inconveniencing others.

 

BTW - I am in the untenable position now, where I go for buses 45-60 minutes before I should need to, but as above, even that is not enough!

Edited by RollingJ

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1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

I don't disagree with any of what you say, but that doesn't explain the problems which occur with depressing regularity on specific routes - which, IMO, is politically driven - but I am prepared to be corrected.

There are blocks of drovers who do certain routes only, none of them do all routes. The most likely reason for buses often being missing on a certain route is that there is a staffing issue on that block, or a traffic issue on that route. Both are possible and would explain your experience. To be honest, your suspicion of a political motive is extremely unlikely. The guys in control are hard pressed at the best of times and to them it is just numbers not areas. Its hard enough keeping the drivers legal as it is without playing games with services. Then you get drivers who after waiting 10 seconds for a response from control take it upon themselves to make their own decision. (often a poor decision due to not having all the information in front of them and if discovered leads to disciplines, but sadly get through unnoticed at times hence larger than expected gaps). Hope that makes sense.

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Here we go again. London road 75 into town  normal afternoon fully packed as if there is some bus shortage.

Absolutely rediculous. If they don't make money out of that I will have to see the actual figures and will not accept stupid comments aimed to calm it down.

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7 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

There are blocks of drovers who do certain routes only, none of them do all routes. The most likely reason for buses often being missing on a certain route is that there is a staffing issue on that block, or a traffic issue on that route. Both are possible and would explain your experience. To be honest, your suspicion of a political motive is extremely unlikely. The guys in control are hard pressed at the best of times and to them it is just numbers not areas. Its hard enough keeping the drivers legal as it is without playing games with services. Then you get drivers who after waiting 10 seconds for a response from control take it upon themselves to make their own decision. (often a poor decision due to not having all the information in front of them and if discovered leads to disciplines, but sadly get through unnoticed at times hence larger than expected gaps). Hope that makes sense.

We called a taxi last week and there were none in the area it took them a while to find a driver.

I looked on their app fivteen minutes later and they had send three drivers to that area to solve that problem.

Filling gaps is not difficult.

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