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South Of Sheffield Traffic Madness

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well Stone The Crows -    to almost quote a business that apparently is going under in town (Barkers Pool)  due to  inexpicably high business rates compared to their competitors.    and their success/failure has nothing to do with the amount of cars that can .. or can't get to it .   

(i have no connection with them ,  just pointing it out) . 

as for people using public transport more , i would do .. if it were cheaper and more reliable .   a short journey is expensive .  and if you have a job which requires lots of calls to be made during the day,  using the bus is totally out of the question. 

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24 minutes ago, Hadron said:

I would be more likely to tax businesses for every car driver that has a start time of 9am and a finish time of 5pm of £1 per employee per day and 50p per employee that stars at 8.30am and finishes at 4.30pm

The A57 should be turned West to go straight through the middle of Birley Wood golf course to the junction of Chesterfield Road A61 with Meadowhead and go South of Beauchief acroos Ringinglow before joining up to the A57 after the Rivelin junction. 

No, we are talking South Sheffield ONLY. This is not the place for joined up transport discussion.

 

And to add, compulsory purchase of property to make wider roads in the afflicted area.

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4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

No, we are talking South Sheffield ONLY. This is not the place for joined up transport discussion.

 

And to add, compulsory purchase of property to make wider roads in the afflicted area.

If I was talking any further South i would be talking about Chesterfield, I know what you mean about compulsory purchase which is a short term and expensive solution. I am talking long term so all that is required is the land that falls into the project cannot be used for any other purposes until the occupants move or die which could be many decades but its there.

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would the idea of a road above woodseats be possible,ie a raised island idea at meadowhead and a raised road to sheffield,with other traffic below ,like a american idea,may sort it?

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18 minutes ago, bassett one said:

would the idea of a road above woodseats be possible,ie a raised island idea at meadowhead and a raised road to sheffield,with other traffic below ,like a american idea,may sort it?

I can think of at least two problems. The bases of whatever is supporting this flyover will be large and have to land somewhere. The route is fully built over or is parkland and would be fraught with planning issues.

 

The other is cost.

 

The other is what do you with the road and traffic when it returns to ground level.

 

The other is it would just become another dreadful traffic jam in a dreadful concrete structure directly over people's houses and lives. Not a place I would want to live.

Edited by Bargepole23

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1 hour ago, bassett one said:

would the idea of a road above woodseats be possible,ie a raised island idea at meadowhead and a raised road to sheffield,with other traffic below ,like a american idea,may sort it?

Or, if we value the place and the health and wellbeing of the people who live in it, perhaps an approach like this might be better?

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3 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Or, if we value the place and the health and wellbeing of the people who live in it, perhaps an approach like this might be better?

Is the right answer.

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On 09/01/2020 at 18:27, Dan Smith1 said:

well Stone The Crows -    to almost quote a business that apparently is going under in town (Barkers Pool)  due to  inexpicably high business rates compared to their competitors.    and their success/failure has nothing to do with the amount of cars that can .. or can't get to it .   

(i have no connection with them ,  just pointing it out) . 

as for people using public transport more , i would do .. if it were cheaper and more reliable .   a short journey is expensive .  and if you have a job which requires lots of calls to be made during the day,  using the bus is totally out of the question. 

I would disagree with that last point - if you are making lots of trips you get the best value as the ticketing structure is mainly based on buying all day passes or season passes (weekly or 28 day principally) that offer unlimited travel. It is only short one off journeys that seem expensive.

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On 10/01/2020 at 11:22, Bargepole23 said:

I can think of at least two problems. The bases of whatever is supporting this flyover will be large and have to land somewhere. The route is fully built over or is parkland and would be fraught with planning issues.

 

The other is cost.

 

The other is what do you with the road and traffic when it returns to ground level.

 

The other is it would just become another dreadful traffic jam in a dreadful concrete structure directly over people's houses and lives. Not a place I would want to live.

Woodseats has been a problem for many years and is also a place of conflicting interests.

 

Traffic needs improving, but that cannot be at the expense of local businesses and residents.

 

If you were to restore it to a multiple lane road (be that two lanes for all traffic or one as a bus lane) you lose parking for the shops, so you would at least have to build a shoppers/workers car park somewhere. It would probably also attract even more through traffic so that extra lane would soon fill up. The geography of the area limits any other solution really I guess.

 

The answer really has to be encourage less traffic to drive through Woodseats, so either taking a different route or a modal shift onto public transport. I suspect with the former people already would take a different route if there was a better option. The latter needs a look at why people don't currently choose public transport and what investment could change that. Do we need more bus priority to improve reliability and journey times? Or would people use a shuttle bus that fed into trains and trams at Dronfield, Dore & Totley and Gleadless Townend?

 

 

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On 07/01/2020 at 13:31, Planner1 said:

But, there's very little congestion on the inner ring road outside the peak hours, so visitors / shoppers largely aren't badly affected.

 

There's also congestion at major shopping centres like Meadowhall etc, so it's not a problem that's only related to the city centre.

 

All towns and cities have traffic congestion at peak times and to expect the Council to "address" this ie eliminate it, is an unreasonable ask. Trying to road build your way out of congestion isn't the way forward, even the Americans realise this.

 

Do you get confused at Meadowhall, which has a ring road and access roads off it which lead to car parks and back out onto the ring road? Pretty much the same way it works in the city centre but on a bit larger scale.....

 

The main thing which prevents bus services co-ordinating with other transport services is the way the regulatory framework works. Bus services are de-regulated, so are provided by commercial operators who run them wherever and whenever it profits them. They cannot be made to co-ordinate their bus services with trams  or trains.

 

Franchising is the way that public authorities can get control back, but it brings with it some significant financial risks, which is one reason why it hasn't been done so far. Another reason was that the regulatory setup didn't allow it to happen until recently. They tried to do it in Tyneside, but after legal challenge from the bus companies found that it could not be delivered in the legal setup that prevailed.

Thank you for this information.  I didn't realise that there was a regulatory problem, but that makes sense.  I think the franchising idea is an interesting one.  

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15 hours ago, DerbyTup said:

Thank you for this information.  I didn't realise that there was a regulatory problem, but that makes sense.  I think the franchising idea is an interesting one.  

The  article here provides a summary of what happened in Tyne & Wear and the implications it had for plans to introduce franchising in other places.

 

In South Yorkshire at that time, the consensus view among the local authorities and the PTE was that franchising carried too many risks and that bus partnership agreements could deliver most of the benefits without the risks. So that's what they have done.

 

The advent of Mayoral authorities and the Bus Services Act 2017 changed the regulatory position and Manchester appear to be going for franchising (decision expected in March) . Others are looking at it too. However, some research Manchester have done on the outcomes appears to suggests that it would temporarily halt the decline in bus patronage, but after a few short years, the downward trend would continue. Check this article

 

Major players in the UK bus market, like First Group are selling off their bus operations, which complicates the picture. Transport for London, who currently are the only area in the UK who operate the franchise model, are losing over £700m per annum on buses.

 

Greater local control of buses will bring with it greater financial risk. Also there's reputational risk if / when the money runs out and services have to be cut.

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having seen on many occasions and its more common now that the shot cut to jordanthorpe and batemoor ect is to do a u turn at the st james retail park,i think its dangerous and needs sorting,before theres a serious accident,also the shopping centre is dangerous with its present layout,what do others think? keeping to the topic of these lights and this parking area please,

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