Scotland And Independence.

[Baron99 790]

13 minutes ago, L00b said:

The UK would still have to pay pensions to retired Scots (up to point in time of course) who paid into the general UK pot up to the split.
 

The UK may also need to get its hand in its pocket to keep the use of Stornaway and Faslane.

 

The UK may wish to agree tarification for procuring Scottish renewable energy.

 

(…)

 

Just sayin’

 

We’ve all seen, and some of us debated, the Brexit divorce bill at the time, with many a poster shouting ‘not a Penny’ in a huff…and then look what happened. Same difference here.

 

These settlements are never black-and-white, nor straightforward, no matter how much people may wish them to be.

I agree that pensions / benefits have to be honoured up to a cut-off date but I'd presume that Scotland has commitments to the Union & it is them that is intending  to  break away, so any 'divorce' payments, much like the UK with the EU, would be on their part not ours.  They're the ones walking away. 

 

As for such as Faslane, the SNP made it clear years ago that they didn't want nuclear weapons on their soil so I suppose the Royal Navy will have to find another suitable port.  

Edited November 23, 2022 by Baron99

[Dromedary 166]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

And let's remember it's THEIR oil. 

Only if you are Scottish.... 

 

[Axe 826]

20 hours ago, L00b said:

Good outcome for the SNP, that’s “suppressed will of the people” manna from political heaven for their next GE.

What about the will of the Scottish people who don't want another referendum and want to remain part of the UK?  When the Scottish Parliament was formed there was an agreement made that any Scottish independence referendum would need that approval of the Westminster Parliament.  It was the SNP leader Alex Salmond and the Prime Minister at the time Tony Blair who were responsible for drawing up the legislation for any Scottish independence referendum to happen.  They had a Scottish independence referendum in 2014 because the Westminster Parliament agreed to grant approval.  Nicola Sturgeon wasted the time of the Supreme Court by challenging what had been agreed when the Scottish Parliament was established. 

[L00b 441]

9 hours ago, Axe said:

What about the will of the Scottish people who don't want another referendum and want to remain part of the UK?  When the Scottish Parliament was formed there was an agreement made that any Scottish independence referendum would need that approval of the Westminster Parliament.  It was the SNP leader Alex Salmond and the Prime Minister at the time Tony Blair who were responsible for drawing up the legislation for any Scottish independence referendum to happen.  They had a Scottish independence referendum in 2014 because the Westminster Parliament agreed to grant approval.  Nicola Sturgeon wasted the time of the Supreme Court by challenging what had been agreed when the Scottish Parliament was established. 

What about the British people who didn’t want another EU membership referendum and wanted to remain part of the EU?

 

Careful with whattaboutery, it swings back 😉

 

[Axe 826]

29 minutes ago, L00b said:

What about the British people who didn’t want another EU membership referendum and wanted to remain part of the EU?

 

Careful with whattaboutery, it swings back 😉

 

There was a gap of 41 years between the two EU membership referendums. It's only been 8 years since the Scottish independence referendum.  

[ECCOnoob 1,029]

49 minutes ago, L00b said:

What about the British people who didn’t want another EU membership referendum and wanted to remain part of the EU?

 

Careful with whattaboutery, it swings back 😉

 

Bit of a difference comparing referendums that were nearly 40+ years apart to one that was only voted on less than 10 years ago.

 

Besides, the bottom line is,  no-one has said they will never ever be able to have another referendum. They are just saying that they will get one when the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland says so.

 

In other words, little Miss Tantrum running the branch office tried to be clever and bypass Head Office approval. The court quashed it. Now time for her to get back in her box. No matter how much she likes to big herself up, she's running a devolved assembly with limited powers. She's still answerable to the Government of the nation that they chose to remain part of.

 

Now she's got all that silliness out of her system, she might focus on some of her actual relevant issues. Reading some of the Scottish press and forums, she is hardly excelling in managing the little bits of control she does have. She really feels she's ready to run her own independent nation. Hmmm.  

Edited November 24, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Mister Gee 822]

17 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Bit of a difference comparing referendums that were nearly 40+ years apart to one that was only voted on less than 10 years ago.

 

Besides, the bottom line is,  no-one has said they will never ever be able to have another referendum. They are just saying that they will get one when the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland says so.

 

In other words, little Miss Tantrum running the branch office tried to be clever and bypass Head Office approval. The court quashed it. Now time for her to get back in her box. No matter how much she likes to big herself up, she's running a devolved assembly with limited powers. She's still answerable to the Government of the nation that they chose to remain part of.

 

Now she's got all that silliness out of her system, she might focus on some of her actual relevant issues. Reading some of the Scottish press and forums, she is hardly excelling in managing the little bits of control she does have. She really feels she's ready to run her own independent nation. Hmmm.  

You’ve got some front, it wasn’t that long ago that you were calling the praises of the former disgraced Prime Minister Johnson.

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Axe said:

There was a gap of 41 years between the two EU membership referendums. It's only been 8 years since the Scottish independence referendum.  

Do you really want to make the Scots wait another 33 years, before granting them a right to self-determination, then?

 

Some democracy you are 😏

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Bit of a difference comparing referendums that were nearly 40+ years apart to one that was only voted on less than 10 years ago.

 

Besides, the bottom line is,  no-one has said they will never ever be able to have another referendum. They are just saying that they will get one when the government of Great Britain and Northern Ireland says so.

 

In other words, little Miss Tantrum running the branch office tried to be clever and bypass Head Office approval. The court quashed it. Now time for her to get back in her box. No matter how much she likes to big herself up, she's running a devolved assembly with limited powers. She's still answerable to the Government of the nation that they chose to remain part of.

 

Now she's got all that silliness out of her system, she might focus on some of her actual relevant issues. Reading some of the Scottish press and forums, she is hardly excelling in managing the little bits of control she does have. She really feels she's ready to run her own independent nation. Hmmm.  

Do we really need to go over the whole ‘significant and material changes in circumstances that prevailed in 2014’ thing again?

Edited November 24, 2022 by L00b

[hauxwell 243]

if Scotland did become independent it would be interesting to know how it would be sorted and how many years it would take.   There would be trade deals to sort out, crossing the boarder from  England to Scotland, the military and could an independent Scotland keep the pound?  

It will be interesting to see what the SNP will do next to get their independence.  

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

[Dromedary 166]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

Do you really want to make the Scots wait another 33 years, before granting them a right to self-determination, then?

But it's not about granting them the right to self determination but granting them the right (under law) to hold a referendum to determine first if the majority of voters want the right to self determination, a totally different matter.  That is democracy for you as it also has to abide by the law, although as in all referendums the results are not legally binding unless incorporated into the act that issues the right for a referendum anyway.

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Dromedary
did a slinny

[L00b 441]

14 hours ago, Dromedary said:

But it's not about granting them the right to self determination but granting them the right (under law) to hold a referendum to determine first if the majority of voters want the right to self determination, a totally different matter.  That is democracy for you as it also has to abide by the law, although as in all referendums the results are not legally binding unless incorporated into the act that issues the right for a referendum anyway.

 

You seem to be confusing the right to self-determination, for its implementing mechanism.

 

Without that mechanism, there is no right, since it cannot be expressed (one way or the other irrespective).

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by L00b

[hauxwell 243]

We did give Scotland an independent vote. Spain didn’t give Catalonia one. I’m sure the Catalan Parliament will be watching Scotland very closely in the future. 

At the next General Election it wouldn’t surprise me if the SNP puts a footnote at the bottom of the ballot paper asking  the people if they want independence and to tick yes or no.