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Scotland And Independence.

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It looks like claims that the government won't allow a Scottish independence referendum are out of date.

 

PM will allow second referendum if SNP wins, says Sturgeon

Quote

The UK government has quietly dropped the use of “once-in-a-generation” language around the referendum due to fears it may give Scottish voters who are still undecided about independence – but keen on Sturgeon’s other policies – a licence to vote for the SNP if they believe there is no chance a referendum will be granted.

But Johnson is said to be adamant in private that he will not be the prime minister who permits a referendum and the Conservatives will hammer home the message that holding such a poll during a pandemic would be deeply irresponsible.

Reports in the Sunday Times suggested that, while the UK government’s position remained that it was opposed to granting Holyrood the requisite powers to hold a legal referendum, senior Tories believe this would be hard to sustain should the SNP triumph on 6 May, and that Johnson would be better off forcing a vote during the economic upheaval likely to follow the pandemic to underline the risks of Scotland leaving the UK.

Don't read too much into reports Johnson is adamant about something. He was adamant he wouldn't allow a third Heathrow runway, was adamant he wouldn't put a border in the Irish Sea, etc. He has a long history of doing the opposite of things he's adamant about.

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Regardless of the rhetoric and the imperial fantasies of the conservative party and their supporters, if the pro-independence parties secure a majority in the scottish elections then the westminster governemnt won't really have much of an alternative than to grant a section 30 referendum. 

 

If they refuse, it will create a running sore which will be exploited by the pro independence parties at every opportunity.  The scottish government would likely organise it's own referendum and while it wouldn't be binding, a positive result would really leave the westminster government in a no-win position.  

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

Regardless of the rhetoric and the imperial fantasies of the conservative party and their supporters, if the pro-independence parties secure a majority in the scottish elections then the westminster governemnt won't really have much of an alternative than to grant a section 30 referendum. 

 

If they refuse, it will create a running sore which will be exploited by the pro independence parties at every opportunity.  The scottish government would likely organise it's own referendum and while it wouldn't be binding, a positive result would really leave the westminster government in a no-win position.  

 

 

 

 

The truth is the results of the un coming domestic Scottish elections are irrelevant to the Scottish independence fantasy.

 

Any Scottish Government organised  non binding  referendum would be boycotted by those wishing to remain part of the UK.  As far as pro UK Scottish voters are concerned the debate was ended in 2014. 

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1 hour ago, West 77 said:

 

The truth is the results of the un coming domestic Scottish elections are irrelevant to the Scottish independence fantasy.

In your dreams, not in reality.

 

1 hour ago, West 77 said:

Any Scottish Government organised  non binding  referendum would be boycotted by those wishing to remain part of the UK.  As far as pro UK Scottish voters are concerned the debate was ended in 2014. 

It was... until Brexit, when a central promise of the remain campaign in 2014 was broken.

 

There's some irony in relation to Brexit and unicorns though, that unicorn in the UK coat of arms is Scottish! :hihi:

 

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This government is so English nationalist that unless something changes it does feel like it will be England on its own at some point. When my kids have grown up I can feel a pre-emptive move to Wales coming, we can both work from home and have plenty of marketable skills.

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4 hours ago, West 77 said:

 

 

 

Any Scottish Government organised  non binding  referendum would be boycotted by those wishing to remain part of the UK. 

Not sure that is really a sensible strategy. Given the closeness of the polls, then the turnout would probably large enough so that the result couldn't be dismissed. 

4 hours ago, West 77 said:

As far as pro UK Scottish voters are concerned the debate was ended in 2014. 

The pro-independence voters don't see that though. Simply treating them and their opinions with the contempt you seem to show for them isn't going to change many minds only harden attitudes.  

 

I don't see that you have made much of an effort to justify the current constitutional arrangements which clearly aren't working well for anyone except a few rich people, the MP friends and sundry lickspittles. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Magilla said:

 

There's some irony in relation to Brexit and unicorns though, that unicorn in the UK coat of arms is Scottish! :hihi:

 

That explains so much as it's likely to be the only unicorn which comes from Brexit. 

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47 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

 

The pro-independence voters don't see that though. Simply treating them and their opinions with the contempt you seem to show for them isn't going to change many minds only harden attitudes.  

 

I don't see that you have made much of an effort to justify the current constitutional arrangements which clearly aren't working well for anyone except a few rich people, the MP friends and sundry lickspittles. 

 

The Scottish people collectively had their chance for independence in 2014 and didn't take it. The truth is if the Scottish people collectively had wanted independence bad enough they would have taken their opportunity in 2014 and wouldn't have given membership of the EU a second thought or a remote care.  When the UK had the opportunity to vote in the 2016 EU referendum I didn't care what either the Remain or Leave campaign claimed because all I wanted was for the UK to leave the EU and become a truly independent sovereign nation again and didn't care about the consequences  for better or worse. I would have accepted a remain victory in 2016 and supported the result but given a choice between remaining in the EU and leaving the EU meaning walking on hot coals and living on bread and water for the rest of my life then I would take leaving the EU every time.

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32 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The Scottish people collectively had their chance for independence in 2014 and didn't take it. The truth is if the Scottish people collectively had wanted independence bad enough they would have taken their opportunity in 2014 and wouldn't have given membership of the EU a second thought or a remote care.  When the UK had the opportunity to vote in the 2016 EU referendum I didn't care what either the Remain or Leave campaign claimed because all I wanted was for the UK to leave the EU and become a truly independent sovereign nation again and didn't care about the consequences  for better or worse. I would have accepted a remain victory in 2016 and supported the result but given a choice between remaining in the EU and leaving the EU meaning walking on hot coals and living on bread and water for the rest of my life then I would take leaving the EU every time.

Why?

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2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Why?

Because Remain won the Scottish Independence referendum and Leave won the EU referendum.  The losers of once in a generation referendums make a mockery out of democracy  by seeking to have other referendums and hoping to get the result they wanted originally that was rejected by the electorate.

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Scotland will never be able to be a independent country....

 

If it was it would control North Sea Oil and that simply cannot be allowed by the establishment....

 

Scottish politicians like to throw independence around every so often to keep certain masses happy trust me it will never happen in a million years....

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On 12/04/2021 at 17:24, West 77 said:

Because Remain won the Scottish Independence referendum and Leave won the EU referendum.  The losers of once in a generation referendums make a mockery out of democracy  by seeking to have other referendums and hoping to get the result they wanted originally that was rejected by the electorate.

That wasn't the bit I'd query. Why would you be prepared to sacrifice your own economic well being? Can you eat sovereignty? Can you make bread and water taste nicer with sovereignty?

 

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