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Scotland And Independence.

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16 minutes ago, Janus said:

Unsure, but the outcome of the investigation may       sink er.

🤣 Nice one, Janus.

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as entertaining as this is, if Ms Sturgen does fall because of this then the risk to the union will still be there. It might recede for a bit but it will return, especially if her replacement is from the wing of the party that is more vocal about independence. 

 

Should this leader do a bit of housekeeping to bring in some new blood and reinvigorate the government, and starts to sensibly explore and suggest possible solutions to deal with the negatives which people raise then it might bring this back up the agenda and get it across the line. 

 

For all the fluff about the people the london based conservative party isn't all that popular up there and it's hard to see a way they could significantly change that. Much of the growth of the vote for the scottish conservatives and snp has been driven by the collapse in support for labour. Both parties have new leaders now so they may start to reclaim those votes. 

 

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Some logical and valid point there Andy. 

 

From this side of the wall, independence does not seem to be a prudent route to go down for the people of Scotland even if they did win the vote. Not brilliant for the UK either.  Moving the subs, and other issues that have probably  been discussed on here.

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4 hours ago, Janus said:

Some logical and valid point there Andy. 

 

From this side of the wall, independence does not seem to be a prudent route to go down for the people of Scotland even if they did win the vote. Not brilliant for the UK either.  Moving the subs, and other issues that have probably  been discussed on here.

I quite agree it doesn't appear prudent, but as we know there are  times when prudence is ignored. 

 

It certainly seems that our current implementation of government from the local to the national level is not really delivering for a majority of the population. A change is long overdue. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, andyofborg said:

I quite agree it doesn't appear prudent, but as we know there are  times when prudence is ignored. 

 

It certainly seems that our current implementation of government from the local to the national level is not really delivering for a majority of the population. A change is long overdue. 

Independence is rarely ever prudential. At least, within the economical meaning of the adjective. Just ask the Irish 🙃

 

Short(er)-term, Scotland’s interest for independence lies more in escaping England’s slow descent into proto-fascism, than improving its socio-economic lot. It can work on the second under its own steam and pace, once free of the first.

 

Today’s Police-Crime-Sentencing-and-Courts Bill vote is going to do (still more) wonders for Scottish separatists at the ballot box in a couple months’ time.

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The huge success of the UK covid -19 vaccine program alone is a good reason why Scottish voters would be foolish to vote for independence in the unlikely event the UK Government grants them another independence referendum anytime soon.

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24 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The huge success of the UK covid -19 vaccine program alone is a good reason why Scottish voters would be foolish to vote for independence in the unlikely event the UK Government grants them another independence referendum anytime soon.

though the abject failure of every other english government response especially when compared with the comparatively better way the scottish govenmement has handled things would be a good reason to vote for independence. 

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43 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The huge success of the UK covid -19 vaccine program alone is a good reason why Scottish voters would be foolish to vote for independence in the unlikely event the UK Government grants them another independence referendum anytime soon.

According to you, that we'd left was why the program was a success :loopy:

 

There's no reason why Scottish voters shouldn't think that going it alone could have given them even better outcomes!

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28 minutes ago, Magilla said:

According to you, that we'd left was why the program was a success :loopy:

 

There's no reason why Scottish voters shouldn't think that going it alone could have given them even better outcomes!

I can't see how an independent Scotland could have the same resources available to them as the MHRA.   However, the SNP don't want to go it alone though. The SNP want an independent Scotland to be part of the EU which can never be guaranteed. Scottish voters will never be foolish enough to risk be neither a member of the UK and the EU.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, West 77 said:

I can't see how an independent Scotland could have the same resources available to them as the MHRA.   However, the SNP don't want to go it alone though. The SNP want an independent Scotland to be part of the EU which can never be guaranteed. Scottish voters will never be foolish enough to risk be neither a member of the UK and the EU.

Scotland’s EU membership can be as “guaranteed”, as Scotland leaving the UK: if that is what a majority of the Scottish people vote for, that is what eventually happens.
 

Exactly like a majority of English people voted for the UK to leave the EU, and eventually it happened.

 

As an EU member state, Scotland would enjoy the resources of the EMA.

 

There is a lot of goodwill in the EU for the Scots joining after gaining their independence. Even a pre-emptive “we’re good with it” from Spain already on record (...were people minded to bring up Catalonia yet again).

Edited by L00b

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50 minutes ago, L00b said:

Scotland’s EU membership can be as “guaranteed”, as Scotland leaving the UK: if that is what a majority of the Scottish people vote for, that is what eventually happens.
 

Exactly like a majority of English people voted for the UK to leave the EU, and eventually it happened.

 

As an EU member state, Scotland would enjoy the resources of the EMA.

 

There is a lot of goodwill in the EU for the Scots joining after gaining their independence. Even a pre-emptive “we’re good with it” from Spain already on record (...were people minded to bring up Catalonia yet again).

Well done for acknowledging my point a truly independent Scotland outside the EU would not enjoy the same resources they enjoy as being part of the UK. Yes, I agree if an independent Scotland ever joined the EU they would enjoy the resources of the EMA.  However, swapping the much more efficient resources of the MHRA for the EMA would be a backward step.

 

Let's be honest an independent Scotland is just a fantasy for some just like Scotland ever winning the football cup is a fantasy. To win the World Cup Scotland need to qualify for the tournament first which is an increasingly more difficult hurdle for them to overcome. To join the EU Scotland first need to leave the UK which is a difficult hurdle to overcome.  Scottish voters will never get a simple choice on a ballot paper between being a part of the UK or a member of the EU.   The truth is those campaigning for Scottish independence don't want to be truly independent otherwise they wouldn't want to be a member of the EU.  In the unlikely event, the Scottish people are foolish enough to vote to leave the UK then they will not be guaranteed to be accepted as an EU member. Let's forget other issues of contention and start with what would the EU gain from Scotland being a member and aggravation the border between England and Scotland would bring to them? 

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2 hours ago, L00b said:

Scotland’s EU membership can be as “guaranteed”, as Scotland leaving the UK: if that is what a majority of the Scottish people vote for, that is what eventually happens.
 

Exactly like a majority of English people voted for the UK to leave the EU, and eventually it happened.

 

As an EU member state, Scotland would enjoy the resources of the EMA.

 

There is a lot of goodwill in the EU for the Scots joining after gaining their independence. Even a pre-emptive “we’re good with it” from Spain already on record (...were people minded to bring up Catalonia yet again).

Can we take it that the EU inform you personally of any countries chances of joining?

Did they notify you of this by letter?

You have no more knowledge than anyone else who would be admitted and there are many major problems to sort out before Europe could even vote on this.

Europe's track record speed-wise for getting things done are are also discouraging as witness the vaccine rollout.

Everyone who is peeved at the UK leaving Europe, wants to have Scotland leave the UK as a punishment but that doesn't mean it will be in Scotland's best interests.

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