Scotland And Independence.

[tinfoilhat 11]

32 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The Scottish people collectively had their chance for independence in 2014 and didn't take it. The truth is if the Scottish people collectively had wanted independence bad enough they would have taken their opportunity in 2014 and wouldn't have given membership of the EU a second thought or a remote care.  When the UK had the opportunity to vote in the 2016 EU referendum I didn't care what either the Remain or Leave campaign claimed because all I wanted was for the UK to leave the EU and become a truly independent sovereign nation again and didn't care about the consequences  for better or worse. I would have accepted a remain victory in 2016 and supported the result but given a choice between remaining in the EU and leaving the EU meaning walking on hot coals and living on bread and water for the rest of my life then I would take leaving the EU every time.

Why?

[Box11 28]

Scotland will never be able to be a independent country....

 

If it was it would control North Sea Oil and that simply cannot be allowed by the establishment....

 

Scottish politicians like to throw independence around every so often to keep certain masses happy trust me it will never happen in a million years....

[Magilla 510]

"Project Love" incoming:

https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-project-love-save-the-union/

[tinfoilhat 11]

On 12/04/2021 at 17:24, West 77 said:

Because Remain won the Scottish Independence referendum and Leave won the EU referendum.  The losers of once in a generation referendums make a mockery out of democracy  by seeking to have other referendums and hoping to get the result they wanted originally that was rejected by the electorate.

That wasn't the bit I'd query. Why would you be prepared to sacrifice your own economic well being? Can you eat sovereignty? Can you make bread and water taste nicer with sovereignty?

 

[GabrielC 53]

Over the years I have travelled around Scotland as you do get talking to the people their more often than not the independence debate comes up. I would say is like an 50/50 subject many see the pros and cons the real problem is Westminster not England or the Union itself. Yes Brexit did have an impact but it's not all down to that but more too  do with the centralised   Westminster parliament.  It's up to the Scottish people in what they want.

[alchresearch 214]

On 15/04/2021 at 19:47, Box11 said:

Scotland will never be able to be a independent country....

 

If it was it would control North Sea Oil and that simply cannot be allowed by the establishment....

 

 

But is oil still important in an ever increasing world of renewables?   And how much is left in the North Sea?

[tzijlstra 11]

Someone asked me what I would vote now that we are moving to Angus and a referendum came up in the next few years... Here are some of the points I have in my head that I think are relevant to understand:

 

Scotland isn't half as dependent on England as it is often made out to be by the English.

 

This is illustrated very simply by looking at the main roads between England and the UK, it is genuinely a long distance, unlike for example Wales, where there is little to no economic activity. That physical distance means that the Scottish Central Belt (which is the economic powerhouse of Scotland) is pretty independent in terms of economic activity from the UK. 

 

Scotland also benefits from having its own distinct economic profile, this extends beyond oil. It is already big on renewables, the whisky/distillery industry is significant enough to carry on contributing to the Scottish economy independently from England, Tourism in the more remote areas won't stop just because of a Leave vote and it has a well established engineering manufacturing base it can build on. 

 

If it can control its own finances, independently from Westminster it can pursue a more common Northwest European strategy of slightly higher taxes and more social infrastructure. 

 

It can also re-apply to the EU and hopefully Scotland will rewrite its constitution to further develop the fairer democratic system in place there. 

 

The negatives are quite small in comparison, loss of military influence, although it would still be a NATO member, a border between Scotland and England (which is a hell of a lot easier to achieve than a border between NI and ROI due to the geography around the border) and loss of the Barnett Formula. The latter will probably be the most significant barrier, but the freedom to develop its own government finances once independent offset this. 

 

So pragmatically speaking, yep, all for independence. 

[Baron99 778]

I'm quite happy for the Scots to decide if the want independence or not.  I've many Scottish relatives from my late mother's side still up there, clustered around Glasgow, Stirling & Edinburgh.  It does seem that those closest to Edinburgh are the ones most in favour of independence. 

 

I'm also in favour of them standing on their own two feet, should they get independence & not be like some of the countries around the world that once formed part of the old empire, that gained independence from the UK decades ago, still think they can come cap in hand to us for cash at the drop of a hat. 

 

If Scotland wants independence, then it is down to the like of Sturgeon to ensure that Scotland is also financially independent by setting their own tax rates etc but also realising that with independence comes competition from the much bigger neighbour just over the border. 

 

From watching her wriggle & squirm at Andrew Marr's questioning about a 'hard border' that would appear between Scotland & England, if she, Sturgeon, tries to take Scotland back into the EU following independence & believing that it would be no problem between the two countries, her of course forgetting that she would not be the one calling the shots in the matter but Brussels, the implications don't seem to have been comprehended by Sturgeon?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-56877967

 

 

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

Hmmm...

... it does make me giggle when people say that Scotland is all for "independence" yet at the same time say they could "re-apply to the EU" for membership.

 

But what do I know?

 

I suppose the increased paperwork involved in exporting all that haggis must be hitting them pretty hard...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1388634/Brexit-news-EU-export-rules-haggis-Burns-Night-UK-trade-latest

[tzijlstra 11]

1 hour ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

... it does make me giggle when people say that Scotland is all for "independence" yet at the same time say they could "re-apply to the EU" for membership.

 

But what do I know?

 

I suppose the increased paperwork involved in exporting all that haggis must be hitting them pretty hard...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1388634/Brexit-news-EU-export-rules-haggis-Burns-Night-UK-trade-latest

I would argue that one of the reasons for the referendum being desired again by Scotland is exactly because of Brexit taking Scotland out of the EU against the wishes of the Scottish population. Over 62% of Scots wanted to remain vs 38% wanting to leave, but because the country is part of the UK it got dragged out of the EU.

 

So not quite sure how you see the two as conflicting.  

[Box11 28]

7 hours ago, alchresearch said:

But is oil still important in an ever increasing world of renewables?   And how much is left in the North Sea?

Oil is used in everything not just cars....

 

There will always be a use for oil no matter what....

 

Hence no independence that's not the only reason but a very important issue why Scotland will never be able to be a independent country.....

Edited April 28, 2021 by Box11

[GabrielC 53]

If Scotland voted to become independent it will be hard to start with yes but I suspect they have many friends in Europe notably Ireland who would help them. I do want to move up their in time independent or not either way I support them whatever they decided.

 

Saor Alba 😊

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by GabrielC