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General Election 2019 - Results Thread.

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33 minutes ago, *_ash_* said:

<interesting reply>

You're free to see the turkey/xmas thing as an insult, most everyone is offended by most everything nowadays, and I'd just Stephen Fry you about it ;)

 

With reference to the socio-economic record of governance of the Conservatives over the past 9 years, it's still hard to think of a better (rapid) analogy, insofar as the body of British society on benefits yet voting Tory is concerned: what objective basis was there then, and is there now, for them to believe that things are going to improve?

 

And that's without bringing Brexit into the fray, nor the non-functioning political opposition of which you were speaking 4+ years ago already (and which, after last week, is now simply non-existent and in need of a complete reboot across the board, save for the SNP).

Edited by L00b

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21 minutes ago, alchresearch said:

There's certainly a strong smug superiority complex with a  couple of posters on here.

Yes. The days of reasonable dialogue in here are long gone.

12 minutes ago, L00b said:

You're free to see the turkey/xmas thing as an insult, most everyone is offended by most everything nowadays, and I'd just Stephen Fry you about it ;)

 

With reference to the socio-economic record of governance of the Conservatives over the past 9 years, it's still hard to think of a better (rapid) analogy, insofar as the body of British society on benefits yet voting Tory is concerned: what objective basis was there then, and is there now, for them to believe that things are going to improve?

 

And that's without bringing Brexit into the fray, nor the non-functioning political opposition of which you were speaking 4+ years ago already (and which, after last week, is now simply non-existent and in need of a complete reboot across the board, save for the SNP).

I don't find it insulting, but clearly 3 years of being called thick/racist/uneducated for voting brexit has come back and bit the remainers on the ass. This could have been done and dusted with a soft brexit option months ago.

 

I don't know whether people think things will improve under the Tories, but perhaps voted against Corbyn, rather than pro-Boris. That was what many Labour MPs said on the radio when they were knocking on doors. The joys of FPTP.

 

I've written time and time again, that Labour need to split up and join with some LibDems, and start a new party that reflects the country. In the link I posted earlier, that particular episode (and the reason I put that one up) was because the centre-left have been losing votes since the 1980s when manufacturing (and hence union membership) was in decline. They'll never win again with this stance. Time to move on. (or start arguing for PR - which will let in more extreme parties on both sides)

 

 

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7 minutes ago, *_ash_* said:

Yes. The days of reasonable dialogue in here are long gone.

I don't find it insulting, but clearly 3 years of being called thick/racist/uneducated for voting brexit has come back and bit the remainers on the ass. This could have been done and dusted with a soft brexit option months ago.

 

I don't know whether people think things will improve under the Tories, but perhaps voted against Corbyn, rather than pro-Boris. That was what many Labour MPs said on the radio when they were knocking on doors. The joys of FPTP.

 

I've written time and time again, that Labour need to split up and join with some LibDems, and start a new party that reflects the country. In the link I posted earlier, that particular episode (and the reason I put that one up) was because the centre-left have been losing votes since the 1980s when manufacturing (and hence union membership) was in decline. They'll never win again with this stance. Time to move on. (or start arguing for PR - which will let in more extreme parties on both sides)

 

 

Hopefully,

 

"Boris Johnson is hitting the ground running after securing an historic victory in the election last Thursday 

The PM will welcome 109 new Tory MPs, many from long-time Labour seats, to Westminster this afternoon

Key new policies include £100billion Northern infrastructure fund, £34billion extra funding for the NHS 

Mr Johnson will carry out a limited reshuffle today to fill vacancies at the Culture and Wales departments

But he is plotting a much bigger shake-up set for February, with up to a third of existing ministers culled"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7796957/Boris-Johnson-hits-ground-running-MPs-return-election.html

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1 hour ago, *_ash_* said:

Yes. The days of reasonable dialogue in here are long gone.

I don't find it insulting, but clearly 3 years of being called thick/racist/uneducated for voting brexit has come back and bit the remainers on the ass. This could have been done and dusted with a soft brexit option months ago.

A soft Brexit was never Theresa May's to give, considering her self-imposed Lancaster red lines, then her dalliance with the DUP.

 

It wasn't Johnson's to give either, so long as he had to rely on the ERG and assorted other ultras to get into no.10. Things might change now ('might', because personally, I just don't see it).

 

Please don't tell me that you subscribe to this notion, that the UK has yet to Brexit because of Remainers since June 2016.

 

Remainers were not bit on the ass through calling (a proportion of-) Brexiteers as thick/racist/uneducated : they were bit on the ass through opposition leaders' hubris impeding  a coordination of tactical voting, besides a much longer-running media hatchet job on Corbyn painting him getting into no.10 as the Apocalypse and worse than Brexit itself.

 

And that (no coordinated anti-Brexit political movement) is something which I have been observing and posting about for close to 3 years now, which made Johnson's victory inevitable (though admittedly, I did not expect him to clean up so well) ;) 

Edited by L00b

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6 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

...Time to move on. (or start arguing for PR - which will let in more extreme parties on both sides)

 

Interestingly, if a PR system had been operational, the Tories would have won 288 seats, with Labour trailing at 213 and the Lib Dems achieving 76.

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1 hour ago, RiffRaff said:

Interestingly, if a PR system had been operational, the Tories would have won 288 seats, with Labour trailing at 213 and the Lib Dems achieving 76.

Interesting indeed :)

 

1. We could be stuck in limbo on a minority government, or if Lab Lib Dem teamed up, they'd vote what they want through. Teaming up which was my suggestion in this election (well a bit late for this one) but, the last and the one before. Interesting and much better representation of voters, I think.

 

It's not all rosy though, I would want to study more into other countries with it, and which types they use. It could just lock the government on lots of things, and nothing gets done. In this case scenario above, it may LOOK good... but ALL people weren't voting for who they wanted; many vote tactically or for least worst option.

 

It's too hard and can't compare how people would have voted if they were voting in a different system, and hence these figures don't really mean anything evidence wise. Example 1: Me. I spoiled my vote. If there was PR, then see point 2

 

2. If PR was introduced, the number of parties would almost certainly increase, knowing they can get their place in government based on what they believe in, rather than split on a things (like EU).

 

e.g. Tory are centre right / ERG; and Labour probably 3 ways: the centre/centre-left/far-left more recently) - so with new parties, I would have more options to vote for policies I agree with. I'd guess that out of the 3 parties (Lab/Lib/Tory), probably 5 parties would be the new total.

 

(edit, sorry I cocked up the quotes, hence had to re-write

 

 

 

 

Edited by *_ash_*
tidied up as m,essed the quotes up

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On 14/12/2019 at 09:37, Delayed said:

I'm sorry but Boris and Priti are proposing nothing new with the immigration system. We already have a points based system for immigration based on the Australian model which was introduced in 2008.

I genuinely didn't realise that.  I suppose I'm now a bit confused as to why we seem to have so many Eastern Europeans, for example, with car-washing skills and not much else apparently?  How did they get through the points system I wonder?

 

A friend of mine is a Kiwi - not the bird - he's a bloke from New Zealand.  He's been here a number of years but recently applied for British citizenship.  He had to take a test to qualify.  He asked me some of the questions:  I hadn't a clue!  I'm not especially thick, but I think he knows more about British culture now than I do.  Pleased to say he passed and is a welcome addition to our country.  

 

(His car is filthy though!)😉

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18 minutes ago, DerbyTup said:

I genuinely didn't realise that.  I suppose I'm now a bit confused as to why we seem to have so many Eastern Europeans, for example, with car-washing skills and not much else apparently?  How did they get through the points system I wonder?

Actually the information given by Delayed is not quite true as although an attempt was made to introduce a points based system for immigration from outside the EU much of the implementation of it did not get introduced or was later made redundant. It never evolved into a proper points based system such as Canada or Australia have.

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1 hour ago, DerbyTup said:

I genuinely didn't realise that.  I suppose I'm now a bit confused as to why we seem to have so many Eastern Europeans, for example, with car-washing skills and not much else apparently?  How did they get through the points system I wonder?

 

A friend of mine is a Kiwi - not the bird - he's a bloke from New Zealand.  He's been here a number of years but recently applied for British citizenship.  He had to take a test to qualify.  He asked me some of the questions:  I hadn't a clue!  I'm not especially thick, but I think he knows more about British culture now than I do.  Pleased to say he passed and is a welcome addition to our country.  

 

(His car is filthy though!)😉

I imagine you know the qualifications and skills of all these “Eastern Europeans” do you - and that their only skill is washing cars? 
 

know them personally do you?

 

Also whether they come from countries within the EU or not?

 

 

 

 

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On 13/12/2019 at 17:31, gamezone07 said:

 

They Conservatives got 43.6% of the votes,  13,966,565 votes out of an adult population of 52 million, is that around 30%?

The BBC says there are 47,587,254  registered voters, the Conservatives got 13,966,451

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24 minutes ago, El Cid said:

They Conservatives got 43.6% of the votes,  13,966,565 votes out of an adult population of 52 million, is that around 30%?

The BBC says there are 47,587,254  registered voters, the Conservatives got 13,966,451

oh god not this again.

 

can't someone start another thread about unfair results and ridiculous numbers, when people don't like results?

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44 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

The system still seems pretty active to me.  Here are a couple of sites that I'm basing that on:

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-part-6a-the-points-based-system

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system_(United_Kingdom)

 

A couple of sub-categories have become obsolete, and one (Tier 3) has never been activated because needs have so far been met by EU migrants, but as far as I'm aware the system as a whole is still in place.

 

But I stand to be corrected.

I didn't say the system was inactive only that its not much of a points based system like Canada or Australia have.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points-based_immigration_system#United_Kingdom

 

If you scroll down to the bit about the UK it states that "The Economist reports that the system did not evolve into a points-based system like that of Australia or Canada due to the numerous special exemptions carved out by various interest groups, and subsequent slashing of immigration under the Tory government."

 

 

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