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General Election 2019 - Results Thread.

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10 minutes ago, dave_the_m said:

And yet a majority of the voting public voted for parties that were in favour of Remain or a second referendum.

Can you please set out your maths on that one.

 

The combined vote share of all the other 'remain' leaning parties (which obviously doesn't include the Brexit party or UKIP) parties amounted to 32.1% which is less than what labour got.  And 11% less than the entire conservative party share. 

 

You are certainly not going to try and mangle labour figures as being deemed 'remain' as nobody knew what the hell they stood for.   Their promise of a second referendum was a meaningless last minute desperate attempt to sway voters - as was most of their policies.   

 

In any event, vote share is not how are elections work as you well know.  The system which applies (and was happily upheld by Labour without complaint when they won) is number of seats.  Conservatives won the most seats by a clear majority well over the threshold set.  

 

The message is clear.

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33 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

You are certainly not going to try and mangle labour figures as being deemed 'remain' as nobody knew what the hell they stood for.   Their promise of a second referendum was a meaningless last minute desperate attempt to sway voters - as was most of their policies.

It was a Labour manifesto pledge to hold a binding second referendum.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree that  the Tories have the votes and legal right to push the Withdrawal Bill though parliament. I'm am just sick of talk of "the Will of the People" which consisted of a non-binding referendum which was split roughly in thirds between Leave, Remain  and Don't know/Don't Care, and where opinion polls have shown a consistent (if small) majority in favour of Remain for the last two years.

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Another silver lining to a Tory government other than Universal Credit is that landlords are going to be protected. None of this rent cap rubbish and inability for landlords to eject tenants from their properties. Things are looking up. 

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1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Can you please set out your maths on that one.

 

The combined vote share of all the other 'remain' leaning parties (which obviously doesn't include the Brexit party or UKIP) parties amounted to 32.1% which is less than what labour got.  And 11% less than the entire conservative party share. 

 

You are certainly not going to try and mangle labour figures as being deemed 'remain' as nobody knew what the hell they stood for.   Their promise of a second referendum was a meaningless last minute desperate attempt to sway voters - as was most of their policies.   

 

In any event, vote share is not how are elections work as you well know.  The system which applies (and was happily upheld by Labour without complaint when they won) is number of seats.  Conservatives won the most seats by a clear majority well over the threshold set.  

 

The message is clear.

Glad you noticed labour weren't a 'remain'party, some on here don't seem to have

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2 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

What on earth are you talking about.  We the public won't vote on the deal - that is for our elected representatives to decide.  

 

We the public have voted on the elected representatives we choose to represent us as best we see fit.   

 

We the public voted on whether or not we wished to leave the EU.

 

We the public have now verified that decision further with a clear rejection of any party who sought to overturn the referendum result. 

 

The technical specifications and exact narrative of the terms on exactly how we leave the EU was never going to be up for public consultation.  It is down to our elected representatives to decide.  Good god to have a system involving the former - things would never ever get done

 

You really do need to wise up about the basics of how parliament works you make yourself look so silly.

 

As for your other point, if anyone wants to read the exact wording of any of the agreed bills going through the house all they have to do is get off their backsides and do so.   It's all available online on the parliamentary website as are all the recordings and transcripts of every single committee and debate.

 

People can go knock themselves out but I bet they won't because it's boring and dull.    That comes back to the problem we always have in this sort of debate.  Nobody cares enough. Nobody actually wants to put the effort in and become informed.

We the public are about to find out exactly how important we are to the Tory government now they're in power with a majority. . . .

Edited by Anna B

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2 hours ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

No matter what is in Boris's deal to us now.  Now Brexit is assured it's down to the elected Government to  sort it out, get the best deal available and bring it home. Boris's landslide over the old geezer will strike terror into the EU, no longer can they ride roughshod over this Country as they have been doing. if they want our  £38 billion they are going to have to talk turkey.

 

Angel1.

Hahahaha, are you in for some emotional pain in the weeks and months to come! :lol:

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1 hour ago, dave_the_m said:

It was a Labour manifesto pledge to hold a binding second referendum.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree that  the Tories have the votes and legal right to push the Withdrawal Bill though parliament. I'm am just sick of talk of "the Will of the People" which consisted of a non-binding referendum which was split roughly in thirds between Leave, Remain  and Don't know/Don't Care, and where opinion polls have shown a consistent (if small) majority in favour of Remain for the last two years.

Never saw the Don't care box .maybe I should have looked better.

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21 minutes ago, L00b said:

Hahahaha, are you in for some emotional pain in the weeks and months to come! :lol:

Come on L00b, cut him some slack. An erudite Frenchman verses a retired lorry driver from S36 is a bit like PSG v Stocksbridge Park Steels.

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41 minutes ago, Mister Gee said:

Come on L00b, cut him some slack. An erudite Frenchman verses a retired lorry driver from S36 is a bit like PSG v Stocksbridge Park Steels.

read page 14 post 168 by Michael W

 

Some good points, and you might learn why all this (in here too) has put the Tories in.

 

 

 

Quote

Is it not a fact that sort of attitude particularly amongst arrogant middle class socialists has itself been the downfall of Labour with many  working class voters in recent years ?

That willingness to demonise everyone who voted for Brexit as uneducated, bigoted, racist, gammon etc is one of the main reasons why many working class people have turned against Labour, that narrative manifested itself amongst the Remainers in the political establishment, and Jeremy Corbyn could not put himself on any one side of the Brexit divide because many in his party had been responsible for that. Look at the socialist worker mob that demonstrated in London at every opportunity with the Remainers, how they constantly demonised and called those they disagreed with ..... is that divisive attitude any better than those they claim to oppose ?

They have in fact created their own nemesis by being so divisive themselves IMHO !

 

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On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 20:37, Delayed said:

We already have a points based system for immigration based on the Australian model which was introduced in 2008.

Yes, it's surprising (or maybe not) that most people seem to be unaware of this.  Plus net immigration from non-EU countries, which are already covered by the points system, far outstrips that from EU countries (219,000 to 59,000 in year ending March 2019).  The only change being proposed is to extend the system to EU citizens.

 

It's true that many non-EU people come to the UK on family visas, which are not covered by the points system (either here or in Australia), whereas most EU people come here to work, but I suppose that might change.

 

[That wasn't phrased very carefully - travelling on a family visa doesn't necessarily imply that you don't want to work.  Also, a much higher proportion of non-EU citizens travel to the UK in order to study, see second link above again.]

Edited by CaptainSwing

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3 hours ago, melthebell said:

Glad you noticed labour weren't a 'remain'party, some on here don't seem to have

By offering a second referendum, they were seen as a Remain party by many Leavers, and by offering to negotiate a softer Brexit proposition to put to the voters, they were seen as a Leave party by some Remainers (as we've seen on the Forum).

 

That was the only sensible way out of the situation.  Unfortunately we're now going to take a not-sensible route.

 

With hindsight, they should probably have voted for Mrs May's "deal".  They'd have got a hammering from the right-wingers in the parliamentary party, but I think it would have played much better with voters in the former "red wall".

Edited by CaptainSwing

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3 hours ago, dave_the_m said:

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree that  the Tories have the votes and legal right to push the Withdrawal Bill though parliament. 

you seem to be assuming that all these sparkly new conservative party MPs support the withdrawal agreement. wouldn't it be funny if the new parliament was just as divided as the last one

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