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General Election 2019 - Results Thread.

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Yes you do. It isn't just about intelligence;  family attitudes, family support, the school you go to etc have a big baring on educational success amongst many other things which have been discussed before.

 

It was a mistake (or a huge success depending on your point of view) to mix Brexit iin with a general election. People weren't even sure what they were voting for, a new government or brexit. A very shrewd move Boris. 

This election was only ever going to be about one thing.  Everyone could see it. You could see it from space.

 

The only person who didn't seem to see it was a dithery weak old man leading the opposition party and his deluded obsessive disciples.

 

Face facts. He failed in his campaigning.  He failed to set out what he actually stood for.   He failed to reach out and engage with the actual people in their parties heartlands.

 

Chucking out endless sweeties and wedging yourself firmly on the fence to try and please everybody doesn't work.  It makes you look desperate to the electorate and that's exactly how he came across.

 

Now rather than accepting their defeat and facing the consequences they are throwing out the excuses and banging on about media bias, an ill-informed electorate - blaming everyone and their mother for voting the "wrong" way.

 

Even the old man himself has not done the decent thing and stood down.  He is still there desperately clinging on until such time as the momentum morons find another useless leader who suits their agenda - rather than one that the electorate actually want to vote for.

 

Within this thread you have had plenty of judgmental little barbs about the Tory voters and them seemingly being totally oblivious to what they were voting for.  

 

Well about time you deal with the fact they knew exactly what they were voting for.   YOU just don't like it. 

 

 

Edited by ECCOnoob

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13 hours ago, catmiss said:

It’s the sort of things they want to get done (and I don’t mean Brexit) that worries me

What the Conservatives want to do, currently, is whatever Dominic Cummings wants to do.

 

Exhibit A: grab the civil service by the scruff of the neck, shake and shred it very violently, and remodel on a de minimis basis

 

(topically, the speech of the local British Ambassador, guest-speaking  at a xmas lunch I attended last Friday, is taking a fuller meaning today )

 

For those (few) readers who know about Cummings, this is one his main, long-term and well-known policy goals, which he's now finally about to deliver through his glove puppet Johnson.

 

So, you work in the civil service, and you just voted for the Tories...ROFL! :lol:

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Yes you do. It isn't just about intelligence;  family attitudes, family support, the school you go to etc have a big baring on educational success amongst many other things which have been discussed before.

 

It was a mistake (or a huge success depending on your point of view) to mix Brexit iin with a general election. People weren't even sure what they were voting for, a new government or brexit. A very shrewd move Boris. 

It wasn't a mistake for Johnson: it was an elephant trap that he set for Corbyn (and Swinson), and Corbyn (and Swinson) walked straight into it, with both eyes open.

 

Tony Blair warned him of exactly that on 2 September. Now you don't have to like the man or his record or his policies or... But you cannot but respect his political acumen.

 

Same story with the other heavyweights of yesteryear, ex-PMs and fathers of the house alike, in the enduring absence of modern-day heavyweights: you could do worse than have a listen, and a good think about, what they're saying.

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1 minute ago, L00b said:

It wasn't a mistake for Johnson: it was an elephant trap that he set for Corbyn (and Swinson), and Corbyn (and Swinson) walked straight into it, with both eyes open.

 

Tony Blair warned him of exactly that on 2 September. Now you don't have to like the man or his record or his policies or... But you cannot but respect his political acumen.

 

Same story with the other heavyweights of yesteryear, ex-PMs and fathers of the house alike, in the enduring absence of modern-day heavyweights: you could do worse than have a listen, and a good think about, what they're saying.

Fully agree with that. 

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1 hour ago, Michael_W said:

Are you really so naive to believe that having qualifications make you worldly and wise ? Is it not a fact that sort of attitude particularly amongst arrogant middle class socialists has itself been the downfall of Labour with many  working class voters in recent years ?

That willingness to demonise everyone who voted for Brexit as uneducated, bigoted, racist, gammon etc is one of the main reasons why many working class people have turned against Labour, that narrative manifested itself amongst the Remainers in the political establishment, and Jeremy Corbyn could not put himself on any one side of the Brexit divide because many in his party had been responsible for that. Look at the socialist worker mob that demonstrated in London at every opportunity with the Remainers, how they constantly demonised and called those they disagreed with ..... is that divisive attitude any better than those they claim to oppose ?

They have in fact created their own nemesis by being so divisive themselves IMHO !

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Brexit should have been cross party from the start. It's split both parties.

The irony is that Jeremy Corbyn is no fan of the EU and left to himself would have voted to leave. 

 

Johnson could not guarantee to 'get it done' either. It depended on him getting a majority, and at the time we were heading for a hung parliament. Corbyn couldn't guarantee staying in either but wouldn't lie about it.. 

 

How often does it need to be said that we have years of negotiating ahead before we are out out.

 

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

Edited by Anna B

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25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Brexit should have been cross party from the start. It's split both parties.

The irony is that Jeremy Corbyn is no fan of the EU and left to himself would have voted to leave. 

 

Johnson could not guarantee to 'get it done' either. It depended on him getting a majority, and at the time we were heading for a hung parliament. Corbyn couldn't guarantee staying in either but wouldn't lie about it.. 

 

How often does it need to be said that we have years of negotiating ahead before we are out out.

 

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

No matter what is in Boris's deal to us now.  Now Brexit is assured it's down to the elected Government to  sort it out, get the best deal available and bring it home. Boris's landslide over the old geezer will strike terror into the EU, no longer can they ride roughshod over this Country as they have been doing. if they want our  £38 billion they are going to have to talk turkey.

 

Angel1.

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37 minutes ago, Anna B said:

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

In general terms it's a one-year transitional withdrawal agreement. For a year we continue paying the EU, obeying EU law etc, supposedly giving us time to negotiate a free trade (or whatever) deal with the EU, plus deals with the 40 other countries we used to have trade deals with by virtue of us being part of the EU. It also sets out arrangements for UK/EU people already residing in EU/UK.

 

Finally it applies a big dollop of fudge to the fundamental problem that, while there will be customs and immigration border controls between UK and the EU, there will miraculously be no such controls when passing from RoI to Northern Ireland to GB and back.

 

Or to put it another way, we're signing up to a one-year delayed hard Brexit, but with a few things resolved and the hope that some other things might get resolved over the course of the next year.

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41 minutes ago, Anna B said:

 

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

What on earth are you talking about.  We the public won't vote on the deal - that is for our elected representatives to decide.  

 

We the public have voted on the elected representatives we choose to represent us as best we see fit.   

 

We the public voted on whether or not we wished to leave the EU.

 

We the public have now verified that decision further with a clear rejection of any party who sought to overturn the referendum result. 

 

The technical specifications and exact narrative of the terms on exactly how we leave the EU was never going to be up for public consultation.  It is down to our elected representatives to decide.  Good god to have a system involving the former - things would never ever get done

 

You really do need to wise up about the basics of how parliament works you make yourself look so silly.

 

As for your other point, if anyone wants to read the exact wording of any of the agreed bills going through the house all they have to do is get off their backsides and do so.   It's all available online on the parliamentary website as are all the recordings and transcripts of every single committee and debate.

 

People can go knock themselves out but I bet they won't because it's boring and dull.    That comes back to the problem we always have in this sort of debate.  Nobody cares enough. Nobody actually wants to put the effort in and become informed.

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15 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

No matter what is in Boris's deal to us now.  Now Brexit is assured it's down to the elected Government to  sort it out, get the best deal available and bring it home. Boris's landslide over the old geezer will strike terror into the EU, no longer can they ride roughshod over this Country as they have been doing. if they want our  £38 billion they are going to have to talk turkey.

We were, we are, and we will remain in a very weak negotiating position with the EU - and that hasn't been changed by the results of the General Election.  As a worst-case fall-back position, the EU could close their borders with us and lose 4% of their export trade, while we lose 44% of ours. We simply have no leverage.

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2 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

What on earth are you talking about.  We the public won't vote on the deal - that is for our elected representatives to decide.  

 

We the public have voted on the elected representatives we choose to represent us as best we see fit.   

 

We the public voted on whether or not we wished to leave the EU.

 

We the public have now verified that decision further with a clear rejection of any party who sought to overturn the referendum result. 

 

The technical specifications and exact narrative of the terms on exactly how we leave the EU was never going to be up for public consultation.  It is down to our elected representatives to decide.  Good god to have a system involving the former - things would never ever get done

 

You really do need to wise up about the basics of how parliament works you make yourself look so silly.

 

As for your other point, if anyone wants to read the exact wording of any of the agreed bills going through the house all they have to do is get off their backsides and do so.   It's all available online on the parliamentary website as are all the recordings and transcripts of every single committee and debate.

 

People can go knock themselves out but I bet they won't because it's boring and dull.    That comes back to the problem we always have in this sort of debate.  Nobody cares enough. Nobody actually wants to put the effort in and become informed.

I think that's an Unfair assessment of fellow members here.

 

Anna IS as far as I see...Well informed...And so am I.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

We the public have now verified that decision further with a clear rejection of any party who sought to overturn the referendum result. 

 

And yet a majority of the voting public voted for parties that were in favour of Remain or a second referendum.

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4 minutes ago, dave_the_m said:

We were, we are, and we will remain in a very weak negotiating position with the EU - and that hasn't been changed by the results of the General Election.  As a worst-case fall-back position, the EU could close their borders with us and lose 4% of their export trade, while we lose 44% of ours. We simply have no leverage.

Oh but WE DO HAVE LEVERAGE...;)

 

No country in their right mind will go against us.

 

WE are the 5th Richest Country in the WHOLE WORLD...!

 

There's a damned good reason for that.

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