General Election 2019 - Results Thread.

[ECCOnoob 1,040]

1 minute ago, L00b said:

It wasn't a mistake for Johnson: it was an elephant trap that he set for Corbyn (and Swinson), and Corbyn (and Swinson) walked straight into it, with both eyes open.

 

Tony Blair warned him of exactly that on 2 September. Now you don't have to like the man or his record or his policies or... But you cannot but respect his political acumen.

 

Same story with the other heavyweights of yesteryear, ex-PMs and fathers of the house alike, in the enduring absence of modern-day heavyweights: you could do worse than have a listen, and a good think about, what they're saying.

Fully agree with that. 

[Anna B 1,414]

1 hour ago, Michael_W said:

Are you really so naive to believe that having qualifications make you worldly and wise ? Is it not a fact that sort of attitude particularly amongst arrogant middle class socialists has itself been the downfall of Labour with many  working class voters in recent years ?

That willingness to demonise everyone who voted for Brexit as uneducated, bigoted, racist, gammon etc is one of the main reasons why many working class people have turned against Labour, that narrative manifested itself amongst the Remainers in the political establishment, and Jeremy Corbyn could not put himself on any one side of the Brexit divide because many in his party had been responsible for that. Look at the socialist worker mob that demonstrated in London at every opportunity with the Remainers, how they constantly demonised and called those they disagreed with ..... is that divisive attitude any better than those they claim to oppose ?

They have in fact created their own nemesis by being so divisive themselves IMHO !

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Brexit should have been cross party from the start. It's split both parties.

The irony is that Jeremy Corbyn is no fan of the EU and left to himself would have voted to leave. 

 

Johnson could not guarantee to 'get it done' either. It depended on him getting a majority, and at the time we were heading for a hung parliament. Corbyn couldn't guarantee staying in either but wouldn't lie about it.. 

 

How often does it need to be said that we have years of negotiating ahead before we are out out.

 

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Anna B

[ANGELFIRE1 10]

25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I've said it before, I'll say it again, Brexit should have been cross party from the start. It's split both parties.

The irony is that Jeremy Corbyn is no fan of the EU and left to himself would have voted to leave. 

 

Johnson could not guarantee to 'get it done' either. It depended on him getting a majority, and at the time we were heading for a hung parliament. Corbyn couldn't guarantee staying in either but wouldn't lie about it.. 

 

How often does it need to be said that we have years of negotiating ahead before we are out out.

 

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

No matter what is in Boris's deal to us now.  Now Brexit is assured it's down to the elected Government to  sort it out, get the best deal available and bring it home. Boris's landslide over the old geezer will strike terror into the EU, no longer can they ride roughshod over this Country as they have been doing. if they want our  £38 billion they are going to have to talk turkey.

 

Angel1.

[dave_the_m 61]

37 minutes ago, Anna B said:

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

In general terms it's a one-year transitional withdrawal agreement. For a year we continue paying the EU, obeying EU law etc, supposedly giving us time to negotiate a free trade (or whatever) deal with the EU, plus deals with the 40 other countries we used to have trade deals with by virtue of us being part of the EU. It also sets out arrangements for UK/EU people already residing in EU/UK.

 

Finally it applies a big dollop of fudge to the fundamental problem that, while there will be customs and immigration border controls between UK and the EU, there will miraculously be no such controls when passing from RoI to Northern Ireland to GB and back.

 

Or to put it another way, we're signing up to a one-year delayed hard Brexit, but with a few things resolved and the hope that some other things might get resolved over the course of the next year.

[ECCOnoob 1,040]

41 minutes ago, Anna B said:

 

By the way, does anybody actually know the details of BJ's 'ovenready' deal? Most people probablyhave no idea what 'deal' they were voting for. |Could be anything in it.

What on earth are you talking about.  We the public won't vote on the deal - that is for our elected representatives to decide.  

 

We the public have voted on the elected representatives we choose to represent us as best we see fit.   

 

We the public voted on whether or not we wished to leave the EU.

 

We the public have now verified that decision further with a clear rejection of any party who sought to overturn the referendum result. 

 

The technical specifications and exact narrative of the terms on exactly how we leave the EU was never going to be up for public consultation.  It is down to our elected representatives to decide.  Good god to have a system involving the former - things would never ever get done

 

You really do need to wise up about the basics of how parliament works you make yourself look so silly.

 

As for your other point, if anyone wants to read the exact wording of any of the agreed bills going through the house all they have to do is get off their backsides and do so.   It's all available online on the parliamentary website as are all the recordings and transcripts of every single committee and debate.

 

People can go knock themselves out but I bet they won't because it's boring and dull.    That comes back to the problem we always have in this sort of debate.  Nobody cares enough. Nobody actually wants to put the effort in and become informed.

[dave_the_m 61]

15 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

No matter what is in Boris's deal to us now.  Now Brexit is assured it's down to the elected Government to  sort it out, get the best deal available and bring it home. Boris's landslide over the old geezer will strike terror into the EU, no longer can they ride roughshod over this Country as they have been doing. if they want our  £38 billion they are going to have to talk turkey.

We were, we are, and we will remain in a very weak negotiating position with the EU - and that hasn't been changed by the results of the General Election.  As a worst-case fall-back position, the EU could close their borders with us and lose 4% of their export trade, while we lose 44% of ours. We simply have no leverage.

[FinBak 12]

2 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

What on earth are you talking about.  We the public won't vote on the deal - that is for our elected representatives to decide.  

 

We the public have voted on the elected representatives we choose to represent us as best we see fit.   

 

We the public voted on whether or not we wished to leave the EU.

 

We the public have now verified that decision further with a clear rejection of any party who sought to overturn the referendum result. 

 

The technical specifications and exact narrative of the terms on exactly how we leave the EU was never going to be up for public consultation.  It is down to our elected representatives to decide.  Good god to have a system involving the former - things would never ever get done

 

You really do need to wise up about the basics of how parliament works you make yourself look so silly.

 

As for your other point, if anyone wants to read the exact wording of any of the agreed bills going through the house all they have to do is get off their backsides and do so.   It's all available online on the parliamentary website as are all the recordings and transcripts of every single committee and debate.

 

People can go knock themselves out but I bet they won't because it's boring and dull.    That comes back to the problem we always have in this sort of debate.  Nobody cares enough. Nobody actually wants to put the effort in and become informed.

I think that's an Unfair assessment of fellow members here.

 

Anna IS as far as I see...Well informed...And so am I.

 

 

[dave_the_m 61]

3 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

We the public have now verified that decision further with a clear rejection of any party who sought to overturn the referendum result. 

 

And yet a majority of the voting public voted for parties that were in favour of Remain or a second referendum.

[FinBak 12]

4 minutes ago, dave_the_m said:

We were, we are, and we will remain in a very weak negotiating position with the EU - and that hasn't been changed by the results of the General Election.  As a worst-case fall-back position, the EU could close their borders with us and lose 4% of their export trade, while we lose 44% of ours. We simply have no leverage.

Oh but WE DO HAVE LEVERAGE...;)

 

No country in their right mind will go against us.

 

WE are the 5th Richest Country in the WHOLE WORLD...!

 

There's a damned good reason for that.

[ECCOnoob 1,040]

10 minutes ago, dave_the_m said:

And yet a majority of the voting public voted for parties that were in favour of Remain or a second referendum.

Can you please set out your maths on that one.

 

The combined vote share of all the other 'remain' leaning parties (which obviously doesn't include the Brexit party or UKIP) parties amounted to 32.1% which is less than what labour got.  And 11% less than the entire conservative party share. 

 

You are certainly not going to try and mangle labour figures as being deemed 'remain' as nobody knew what the hell they stood for.   Their promise of a second referendum was a meaningless last minute desperate attempt to sway voters - as was most of their policies.   

 

In any event, vote share is not how are elections work as you well know.  The system which applies (and was happily upheld by Labour without complaint when they won) is number of seats.  Conservatives won the most seats by a clear majority well over the threshold set.  

 

The message is clear.

[dave_the_m 61]

33 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

You are certainly not going to try and mangle labour figures as being deemed 'remain' as nobody knew what the hell they stood for.   Their promise of a second referendum was a meaningless last minute desperate attempt to sway voters - as was most of their policies.

It was a Labour manifesto pledge to hold a binding second referendum.

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree that  the Tories have the votes and legal right to push the Withdrawal Bill though parliament. I'm am just sick of talk of "the Will of the People" which consisted of a non-binding referendum which was split roughly in thirds between Leave, Remain  and Don't know/Don't Care, and where opinion polls have shown a consistent (if small) majority in favour of Remain for the last two years.

[Albert the Cat 0]

Another silver lining to a Tory government other than Universal Credit is that landlords are going to be protected. None of this rent cap rubbish and inability for landlords to eject tenants from their properties. Things are looking up.