The Elm Wine Bar

[DerbyTup 10]

I thought I'd just say a few words about this place on Gibraltar Street.  I only noticed it for the first time the other day as I stumbled out of Shakespeare's pub.  I was immediately attracted to it, because it said "Wine Bar" on it - and that makes it a rare thing in this city for a start.  And then, I noticed the rather intimate low-level lighting and somewhat eclectic appearance.  I thought... Hmm!  this place looks different!  And so the other day we paid a visit.

 

I have to say, we enjoyed it.  It's a bit of a basic, chic industrial, feel to it.  Bare wooden floorboards, scrub tables and a rather eclectic menu too.  Not a lot of choice of dishes, but what they do do, they do well I thought.  It's not the place for a slap-up meal I'd suggest.  But if your thing is enjoying a few different and tasty things, rather than filling your belly until you need to put your belt on a lower setting, then you'll probably like it.  As an example of the food, they do things like "Hogget Bon Bons" and "Baked vacherin".   If you didn't know, "Hogget" is a yearling lamb.  So, it's somewhere between a young sheep and an older sheep.  It's not lamb, but it's not mutton either.  Not that any of this matters too much I don't suppose.  The Bon Bons are crispy little balls containing the Hogget.  Very nice too!  The baked vacherin is a whole cheese, baked with herbs and served molten at the table to be mopped up with freshly made bread.

 

Have you got the picture?

 

You won't get a burger, a pizza or a fried chicken in here.  It's not that kind of place.

 

It does seem to attract a certain clientele - one that I'd describe as a bit "New Age" - for want of a more insulting description.  We had to manoeuvre carefully when taking our seat to avoid treading on a couple of dogs that were sprawled out across the floor.  Their owners looked like they had just got back from a long walk over Kinder Scout or something.  cagoules, big woolly jumpers, bobble hats.  In the fireplace, a fake wood burning stove flickered away, emitting no heat.  It's a pity, I think, that having got such an earthy, honest, home-made, feel to it, they ended up sticking some fake modern stove in there - anyhow...that's just something that jars with me and I doubt it will bother anyone else too much.

 

I thought the wine list was really good.  Again, not a massive choice, but a very different sort of line-up to what you normally see and very reasonably priced too.  The service was very nice too - very polite and attentive. 

 

Would I go back?  Yes I would.  But I'd be going mainly for a few glasses of wine and a nibble rather than an all out meal.  And I'd probably dress down a bit for the occasion - and borrow someone's stray dog to take in with me on a length of washing line, so that I really fit in.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by DerbyTup

[Flanker7 20]

I'm not a 'wine bar' type but enjoy loads of the stuff at home. 

I go for grape variety but not much more sophisticated than that.

 

Whats reasonably priced for food and wine in that type of place, in your opinion?

How do you judge a wine list?

 

[jemson 10]

I`ve seen it but not been in. I`m down in that direction on Saturday with the OH so I might have a look. 

[DerbyTup 10]

22 hours ago, Flanker7 said:

I'm not a 'wine bar' type but enjoy loads of the stuff at home. 

I go for grape variety but not much more sophisticated than that.

 

Whats reasonably priced for food and wine in that type of place, in your opinion?

How do you judge a wine list?

 

Phew!  That's a really difficult question Flanker7.    About the wine.  I'll come back to that in a minute.  Re the food though, I'd say that Elm Wine Bar prices are reasonable/low for the kind of fare they are turning out.  Here's a picture from their Facebook page.

 

 

 

As to the wine question:  First of all, I'm not a wine connoisseur.  That doesn't mean I don't know a bit about it - but I'm not knowledgeable to the point where I could tell one vintage from another, or give you the family history of the chateaux that it's from.  The limit of my  knowledge is probably similar to yours, I'm familiar with different grape varieties and have established a few favourites in terms of different types of grape variety and style of wine over the years.  I have had quite a lot of exposure to it, through entertaining of clients in a corporate environment.  I've been on several wine-tasting courses which I found really interesting.  But I'm not Oz Clarke or Jilly Gooden (assuming they are still at it?).

 

When you ask "what's reasonable?" in terms of price - I think the first question is, what kind of establishment are we talking about?  Because that usually sets the tone and expectation of price.  If you're having a  bottle of wine in a pub or  Indian restaurant, I wouldn't expect to pay more than about £15/20 quid.  And I'd do so knowing that in the majority of cases it's rubbish that I'm buying.  If I was having a bottle of wine in somewhere like the Old Vicarage at Ridgeway I'd probably expect to be paying double that to get anything half-way decent.  

 

I'll give you an example:  We went to Vero Gusto the other week.  We like Vero Gusto - it's a good quality Italian restaurant.  A bit small and tables close together, but the food is very good.  It's not cheap though.  It's not...Frankie & Benny's, or one of the many fake "Trattoria's" that we have around Sheffield.  It's top end Italian, so I expect the wine list will be a bit pricey.  

 

When I'm in an Italian restaurant I like to go for Italian wines - not always - but quite often.  Especially if, like here, they do have some very good ones.  My favourite Italian wine is Amarone.  It's a full-bodied, spicy red wine, very deep in colour and flavour.  Absolutely delicious!  Of course there are many producers and different levels of quality of it, but it's generally a good bet.   (Costco have a very nice one by "Masi" - Costaserra Amarone - about £23 a bottle I think).  I can't remember exactly now, I think they had Amarone on the list at Vero Gusto, but it was really pricey, about £85 a bottle I think, so I chose something else instead.  A Primitivo.  Primitivo is another full bodied wine, it has a lovely rich, almost jammy flavour to it.  We pushed the boat out a bit on this occasion and paid £60 for a bottle that came highly recommended by the waiter.  It's called "Papale" and it's from Puglia.  This one.

 

It was superb!  However, you have to bear in mind that most high end restaurants will put a 3 x mark up on the price of their wines.  So, if you're paying £60 a bottle you're probably drinking a £20 bottle.  This is exactly what I found afterwards.  I liked this wine a lot, so I ordered some on line for less than £20 a bottle.   I suppose, in a top restaurant, I'd pay £60 ish for a really good bottle of wine.  Bear in mind the wine lists in some of these places run to hundreds or even thousands of pounds a bottle (especially in London!).  

 

Another example, we went to La Scala on Abbeydale Road a few weeks ago, with a group of friends.  My mate likes a decent wine, but his eagle-eyed fussy wife controls the budget in their house and won't let him necessarily have what he wants.  He ordered a cheap bottle of something or other - the attraction was that it was about £20 - one of the cheaper ones on the list.  It was absolute rubbish!  Thin, didn't taste of anything, I mean, seriously, I'd rather have not bothered and saved that £20 than order something like that.  When it ran out I called the waiter over and ordered a bottle of Amarone - that was £45 in there.  La Scala is NOT a high end Italian place, although it's quite nice food and good value for money.  

 

One place that always surprises me in terms of the price of the wines, is Hassop Hall.  I really like Hassop Hall.  It's a fine, stately, country house hotel, very traditional.  Lovely, olde-worlde style and values.  The dining rooms are elegant and all the waiting staff are in smart uniform, the ladies in Victorian dresses with aprons, gloves and hats.  Fabulous!  The food is...good.  It's not absolutely "top end", but it's always very enjoyable with a huge selection of food.  The wine list though is...disappointing.  Considering the type of place it is, they could be offering a lot more "top end" wines, but they don't.  They only have a relatively small selection and they are generally cheap in price.  I think the most expensive thing on the list was under £30, which for that kind of establishment, seems bizarre.  Maybe they don't put a big mark up on them like other places do (because I'm sure they make a lot of profit on the multi-course meals).  But when I go there I just wish they'd have something a bit more interesting on the wine list.  For some of us, the wine is almost as important as the food!  

 

It's about the place you're in really.  In a pub/cheap restaurant - £15/20 a bottle for something half-decent.  Mid range restaurants - up to about £40.  Top end - £50-£ infinity!   

 

If nothing else, it inspires one to find the same thing cheaper on line!    

 

There are some pubs which break the mold and offer really good wines.  A few years ago we used to drive from here, South West Sheffield, to a pub at Grange Moor, near Wakefield, called the Kaye Arms - and one of the main reasons was the excellent wine list that they had.  The food was excellent too.  But I knew we could go there, have a very good meal and have a bottle of fine wine, for not a lot of money.  It changed hands a few years ago now.  The past owners have a new restaurant at Kirkburton called "The Dyeworks" - which is very good too, but a bit further out.

 

How do I judge a wine list?  A bit like I judge my real ale pubs I suppose.  I like to see a variety of different styles from different parts of the world.  I do like it when restaurants know a bit about their wines.  I'm more inclined to part with more money if I think they know what they are talking about.  Some years ago I was put onto this one, by a knowledgeable Sommelier...

 

It's a full-bodied red wine from Lebanon. "Chateau Musar".  I'm going back now, over 20 years, maybe more, when I first tasted it.  The waiter informed me that it had been blind-tested versus some of the very best French Clarets and came out top!  At that time it was about £5 a bottle in the shops!  It's nearer to £30 a bottle now in the shops (and at least double that in a restaurant), because it's reputation has grown.  It is a very nice wine.  There was one period when they had some quality control issues with it - but if you like big and bold and a subtle fine wine taste - this is great!  Majestic have an offer on their fine wines at the moment and they have this in stock so I just reminded myself I may pop down there to get some for Christmas.  (I think it's about £25 on offer).

 

There are many others...too many!  

 

I also judge the wine list by looking for wines that I know I like and seeing if they are available and at what price.  So, if I turn to the "New World" section and they've got things like this Chateau Musar above, it kind of indicates to me that they know a bit about wine and are looking a bit further afield than Australia, Germany and France.  I might even look to see if they have any of the up and coming English wines too - that would tell me something (although I probably wouldn't order any!).  I like some of the American wines, especially the big reds from Washington and Napa valley, or the crisp whites from Sonoma.  So I'd look to see what they might have in terms of those types of wines.  I could pretty much form an opinion on how knowledgeable the restaurant is about wine, by looking through their wine list and seeing what they are offering.  If I felt they had a good range with some interesting wines in there, then I'd be more tempted to let them lead me by the hand and ask their advice to try something new.

 

That's kind of how I've learned over the years.  Having had the opportunity to do so and being open-minded and inquisitive, rather than just ordering what I'm familiar with.

 

Hope this is inspiring you!  Enjoy!

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by DerbyTup

[Flanker7 20]

Thanks DT.

Interesting menu and drinks board.

There must have been a shortage of '0's that day.

 

[DerbyTup 10]

6 hours ago, Flanker7 said:

Thanks DT.

Interesting menu and drinks board.

There must have been a shortage of '0's that day.

 

😀 I made exactly the same comment to my wife.!  
 

It’s a trendy thing F7!  Saves on chalk!  Saves the planet!  But comes over as illiterate, innumerate and totally unnecessary to some. 
 

However, if your idea of a good night out is to take your lurcher to a wine bar, it’s “cool”!

Edited December 6, 2019 by DerbyTup

[Longcol 600]

I think they're taking the pee with the price of the Coteaux Bourguignons - this isn't a "proper" Burgundy ie a Pinot Noir from the Cotes or even Haut Cotes - it's a Gamay -usually from further south towards the Beaujolais. It's a great glugging wine - got a couple of bottles on the shelf staring at me now - but out here in France it's about 4 euro a bottle - on a par with a bog standard Beaujolais.

 

And, ouch! the price of the Aligote - it's only Burgundy's second white grape because the Chardonnay producers keep all the other decent white grape varieties well away.

 

Ok - we're spoiled rotten for choice and value for money in France - it's a hard life but somebody's got to do it.

 

ps - Happy memories of Chateau Musar - going back to the late 80's when Sainsburys on Archer Road used to sell it for about £5 or so a bottle we always used to put one in the trolley.

[DerbyTup 10]

On 06/12/2019 at 22:52, Longcol said:

I think they're taking the pee with the price of the Coteaux Bourguignons - this isn't a "proper" Burgundy ie a Pinot Noir from the Cotes or even Haut Cotes - it's a Gamay -usually from further south towards the Beaujolais. It's a great glugging wine - got a couple of bottles on the shelf staring at me now - but out here in France it's about 4 euro a bottle - on a par with a bog standard Beaujolais.

 

And, ouch! the price of the Aligote - it's only Burgundy's second white grape because the Chardonnay producers keep all the other decent white grape varieties well away.

 

Ok - we're spoiled rotten for choice and value for money in France - it's a hard life but somebody's got to do it.

 

ps - Happy memories of Chateau Musar - going back to the late 80's when Sainsburys on Archer Road used to sell it for about £5 or so a bottle we always used to put one in the trolley.

Sounds like you've been spoiled there in France with the wine.  I know it's fantastic value and I'm envious that you can get it so cheaply.  I'm convinced the French - and a lot of others too - keep the best wines for themselves and export the lesser ones. 

 

Some years ago we visited the Black Forest area of Germany.  I wasn't particularly looking forward to German wine, but they had some beauties and it wasn't just the Liebfraumilch, Piesporter, Riesling stuff.  They had some good red wines too - I was quite surprised.  Apparently those wines rarely leave Germany.

 

I used to live in Romania and some of their red wines were very good, particularly a grape called Feteasca Neagra.  This produces a very rich, full-bodied wine.  I was back there a few weeks ago and regrettably it seems it has been "discovered" now.  We used to pay about £2 a bottle for it - now it's more like £20 or more if consumed in a decent restaurant.  We get some Romanian wines here in the UK now, but I don't think I've seen this particular grape.  I must check it out.