London Terror Attack 29/11/2019

[melthebell 862]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50615926

 

Funnily enough the first named victim was working with offenders at the event where it started and his father has said he doesn't want his sons killing to lead to more draconian laws

[Michael_W 11]

6 minutes ago, melthebell said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50615926

 

Funnily enough the first named victim was working with offenders at the event where it started and his father has said he doesn't want his sons killing to lead to more draconian laws

That's very noble of his father considering the circumstances of his sons death, however that same opinion may or may not be held by the parents of other victims or indeed any potential future victims of 'violent' criminals who get released early, it does make you wonder what level of rehabilitation can be achieved or expected with some offenders, people who have plotted to kill on such a scale that it be considered terrorism maybe should be imprisoned for longer .... just an alternative thought.

[ECCOnoob 1,020]

7 minutes ago, Michael_W said:

That's very noble of his father considering the circumstances of his sons death, however that same opinion may or may not be held by the parents of other victims or indeed any potential future victims of 'violent' criminals who get released early, it does make you wonder what level of rehabilitation can be achieved or expected with some offenders, people who have plotted to kill on such a scale that it be considered terrorism maybe should be imprisoned for longer .... just an alternative thought.

Another alternative thought would be to look at seeking out the root cause of what converts these people into considering such extreme acts in the first place.

 

Whenever these tragedies occur the reactionary pitchfork brigade always start demanding they should lock them up and throw away the key.  The reality is that does not solve the problem.

 

America have a death penalty for god's sake.  One could say it's the ultimate preventative measure for reoffending.  However we all know in reality that does sod all to stop the constant violent crimes, shootings and terrorism happening in the country.

 

It's just too simplistic.

 

The response from the father is a very noble given the circumstances but in my opinion it is the right position to take.  It's balanced and gives consideration to the wider picture. 

 

Times are turbulent enough without knee-jerk reactionary decisions primarilly fuelled by the hysterics and certain types of media.

 

Edited November 30, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[Michael_W 11]

I'm all for looking in to root causes but maybe that in itself could be considered to be a simplistic answer, I'm sure resources have been spent doing that very thing over the last 15 years or so anyway. I certainly don't consider my opinion as knee jerk or pitchfork like either, though others may hold harsher thoughts than me, but the system we have, whichever way it's looked at, has failed in this instance, regardless of the thoughts of you or me.

[Ontarian1981 10]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yes great petition away but what is the actual solution to the problem.  

 

Exactly the same with the whole Hillsborough debacle - quite rightly grieving families get angry and upset.  All they want is a single thing or single person to place all the blame onto.   However, in the real world that is not always possible or even right.

 

Just because one nut job has reoffended after being released does not mean that the entire system should be thrown out.

The system,as flawed as it is, can stay as is except for terror attacks.This is where the laws have to change to reflect the horrors of terrorism. 

You say "just because one nut job has re offended". Just because?? Tell that to the loved ones of the innocent people who were killed by this "nut job" who would never have been released if special laws for terrorist activities existed.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Ontarian1981

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 hours ago, Ontarian1981 said:

Just because WE don't know, doesn't make terrorists go away and stop making the bombs.

Most of these one-off attackers use knives because they are saddo loners who wouldn’t have a clue where to get anything more dangerous than a kitchen knife from Wilkos.  Look at some of the evidence presented in some of the recent terrorist trials. These people are so incompetent that they make Four Lions look like a serious documentary.

[melthebell 862]

1 hour ago, Michael_W said:

That's very noble of his father considering the circumstances of his sons death, however that same opinion may or may not be held by the parents of other victims or indeed any potential future victims of 'violent' criminals who get released early, it does make you wonder what level of rehabilitation can be achieved or expected with some offenders, people who have plotted to kill on such a scale that it be considered terrorism maybe should be imprisoned for longer .... just an alternative thought.

a lack of money tree didnt help apparently?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50615928

 

Former chief crown prosecutor Nazir Afzal said he repeatedly warned Mr Johnson of the risk posed by convicted terrorists being released from prison while still radicalised.

Mr Afzal said: "He asked me what keeps me awake at night and I told him it was this issue.

"When he wanted to know what to do about it, I told him it was more resources for one-to-one de-radicalisation.

"Back then, he hadn't found the 'money tree' so he frustratingly said there was no money."

The Prime Minister said: "A great deal of working is being done to make sure the public is protected."

 

but they soon found it for the DUP and brexit Oo

[Jim Hardie 523]

What a contrast.

Richard Reid. Three consecutive life sentences plus 110 years without parole. 

Usman Khan. Eight years and a pat on the head.

 

[altus 537]

34 minutes ago, melthebell said:

a lack of money tree didnt help apparently?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50615928

Neither did failing to fund deradicalisation services by the look of it - London Bridge attacker had asked for help to deradicalise - lawyer

The London Bridge attacker had asked for help to be deradicalised while he was in prison, but none was forthcoming, his solicitor has claimed.

Vajahat Sharif told the Guardian Usman Khan had come to realise that violent extremism was wrong and accepted his understanding of Islam was deficient.

Khan was one of nine members of an al-Qaida-inspired terrorist group convicted in 2012 of plotting to bomb the London Stock Exchange and build a terrorist training camp in Pakistan that was disrupted by MI5 and the police. He was also a supporter of al-Muhijaroun, the extremist group with which scores of terrorists were involved. However, Sharif said Khan became disillusioned with the group after his imprisonment, and that extremists may have targeted him to be “re-groomed” after release from jail, with devastating consequences.

He said Khan first mentioned wanting to be free of Islamist extremism after his conviction in 2012, and then repeatedly throughout his time in jail, last mentioning it in 2018 before his release.

“He requested intervention by a deradicaliser when he was in prison,” Sharif said. “The only option was the probation service and they cannot deal with these offenders. He asked me on the phone to get assistance from a specific deradicaliser.

 

 

[tinfoilhat 11]

5 hours ago, Branyy said:

Yes, we don't have to worry about him. But what about the others? Like his terrorist friends from 2012?

To be fair, I'm not sure that convicted terrorists are released after 6 years anywhere in the real (civilised) world except Britain.

Interestingly, one of the have-a-go "heros" was a convicted murderer out on day release.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/30/narwhal-tusk-and-fire-extinguisher-used-to-tackle-london-bridge-attacker

[melthebell 862]

7 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Interestingly, one of the have-a-go "heros" was a convicted murderer out on day release.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/30/narwhal-tusk-and-fire-extinguisher-used-to-tackle-london-bridge-attacker

interesting conundrum lol

[kidneystone 23]

I wonder what the guy who picked up the knife threw away?

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by kidneystone