Should The Public Take Back Control Of Buses In Our Region?

[willman 10]

14 hours ago, catmiss said:

I take it you are a car driver otherwise you’d be aware of the number of people using busses and trams to get to work, university, college etc. Given the city centre parking issues of supply and cost a lot of drivers park their cars free in residential areas such as mine and then use public transport to complete their journey into the city centre. All public services are paid from local or national taxation- are you suggesting that the majority should not contribute to services used by a minority? 

And a public transport user. So outside rush hour into any large conurbation such as Sheffield  - whats the next biggest user of buses. Might not be oaps, but in the circumstance where i live its no one at all.

Would we pay tax to keep a school open with no pupils in it, i doubt it - so why run buses that aren't paying their own way.

[Pettytom 1]

36 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

None of those things are unique to the fact transport in London is nationalised though. Would you feel the same if a private company or companies provided the same level of service in London as currently but `only` took £100m a year in government subsidies?

I think that the lesson we should have learned from deregulation of public transport is that competition isn’t always a good thing. One provider, overseeing all the transport in a city is surely preferable to the ragbag of a service that we have in Sheffield.

 

I’m not fussy about whether the provider is public, or private. I would like someone to take an overarching view of the local buses, trams and trains.  Maybe then, we would get planning that allows  a transport system to do the things that the population of the city need, rather than simply trying  to generate a profit.

 

Some things are worth paying for.

[Guest busdriver1]

23 hours ago, Pettytom said:

That rather depends upon what you get for your billion quid.

 

If you get efficient movement of people around our capital city, it might well be fine. Consider the boost to commerce and tourism that this will bring. Add in the reduction in pollution that goes hand in hand with efficient public transport and youve probably got money well spent.

We seem to forget when the old argument of London comes up that the population there is about 10 times what it is here so for an area approximately the same size Council tax contributions would have to be about 10 times what they currently are. Still keen? 

[Guest busdriver1]

22 hours ago, Pettytom said:

I think that the lesson we should have learned from deregulation of public transport is that competition isn’t always a good thing. One provider, overseeing all the transport in a city is surely preferable to the ragbag of a service that we have in Sheffield.

 

I’m not fussy about whether the provider is public, or private. I would like someone to take an overarching view of the local buses, trams and trains.  Maybe then, we would get planning that allows  a transport system to do the things that the population of the city need, rather than simply trying  to generate a profit.

 

Some things are worth paying for.

There was one major flaw in the original transport bill and to be honest we should have seen that. We expected councils to keep their part of the bargain, something they have consistently failed to do from day one. 

I was much keener on the original plan where all buses would be put under the control of the National Bus Company and that would then be floated on the stock exchange. There would be an independent body overseeing services and providing gap fillers under tender as required. This would remove local politics from transport as well as preventing glass walls at county boundaries. A  far better solution than current.

[the_bloke 17]

23 hours ago, Pettytom said:

I think that the lesson we should have learned from deregulation of public transport is that competition isn’t always a good thing. One provider, overseeing all the transport in a city is surely preferable to the ragbag of a service that we have in Sheffield.

 

I’m not fussy about whether the provider is public, or private. I would like someone to take an overarching view of the local buses, trams and trains.  Maybe then, we would get planning that allows  a transport system to do the things that the population of the city need, rather than simply trying  to generate a profit.

 

Some things are worth paying for.

Re: bold - you mean you want an executive to cover transport in south yorkshire?

 

Like the one we already have, which is a public body and presumably you don't rate it's performance very high?

[Bilge 34]

7 hours ago, the_bloke said:

Re: bold - you mean you want an executive to cover transport in south yorkshire?

 

Like the one we already have, which is a public body and presumably you don't rate it's performance very high?

That's the whole point. SYPTE doesn't plan or control any buses at all. Nor do any of the four councils in South Yorkshire. The PTE merely looks after bus shelters and prints a few timetables and gives an overall veneer of a local planned transport 'system'.

 

The bus companies just provide whatever terrible services they think they can milk profits from.  Like all private sector businesses their priority is to maximise profits for shareholders. They are not there to provide a service. The people of the region just have to put up with that. Go and tell Greater London that's the system they should have and see what the reception is to that idea.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Bilge

[the_bloke 17]

13 hours ago, Bilge said:

That's the whole point. SYPTE doesn't plan or control any buses at all. Nor do any of the four councils in South Yorkshire. The PTE merely looks after bus shelters and prints a few timetables and gives an overall veneer of a local planned transport 'system'.

From https://sypte.co.uk/HowWeWork/Operators:

 

Through our involvement in South Yorkshire’s four Bus Partnerships we play an active role in planning, coordinating and improving bus services across the region.

Working together with local authorities and bus operators, we aim to provide a simpler, coordinated service which meets the needs of customers across the region. By joining forces on decisions around route planning, ticketing and service frequency we make it easier for people to get around Barnsley, Doncaster, Rotherham and Sheffield by bus.

 

I think they do a lot more in planning buses than you give them credit for.

[Bilge 34]

On 10/11/2019 at 09:47, the_bloke said:

From https://sypte.co.uk/HowWeWork/Operators:

 

Through our involvement in South Yorkshire’s four Bus Partnerships we play an active role in planning, coordinating and improving bus services across the region.

Working together with local authorities and bus operators, we aim to provide a simpler, coordinated service which meets the needs of customers across the region. By joining forces on decisions around route planning, ticketing and service frequency we make it easier for people to get around Barnsley, Doncaster, Rotherham and Sheffield by bus.

 

I think they do a lot more in planning buses than you give them credit for.

They do as much as they are allowed to do by the legislation - which isn't much. They can cajole First and Stagecoach and the others a bit. But those companies have to make profits, they don't take orders from the PTE.

 

What the PTE don't do is run buses themselves or put out to tender loads of bus services all over the region. 

[1295galaxy 20]

Stage Coach & First do not seem bothered at All about there South Yorkshire passengers,Loads were stranded in town again last night with the Stage Coach Number 1 and First Number 11,not going on there general route to town,and no notices or poster telling consumers that they had changed there routes,loads waited outside the old market bus stop but both buses never came on that route,as the 76,98 and 97 did so why didn"t the Number 1 or 11 come on that road seem very odd,there should have been note on the bus stops telling consumers they could not do there regular route,so people will be not stranded getting home or to work

[Resident 1,185]

1 hour ago, 1295galaxy said:

Stage Coach & First do not seem bothered at All about there South Yorkshire passengers,Loads were stranded in town again last night with the Stage Coach Number 1 and First Number 11,not going on there general route to town,and no notices or poster telling consumers that they had changed there routes,loads waited outside the old market bus stop but both buses never came on that route,as the 76,98 and 97 did so why didn"t the Number 1 or 11 come on that road seem very odd,there should have been note on the bus stops telling consumers they could not do there regular route,so people will be not stranded getting home or to work

Occasionally there are unexpected/emergency diversions. 

 

Not sure about the 1/11 however as an example, during yesterday a vehicle broke down on West St and was immobile. There were 2 trams stuck behind it also so multiple services were diverted. 

 

In these situations there is no quick way to get information to the bus stops. 

PTE/TSY did start rolling out electronic display boards but in the many years since have never completed it. 

 

I don't know of anyone without a smartphone these days and such information is posted online via social media & TSY website. 

[Andy C 85]

On 20/11/2019 at 13:11, 1295galaxy said:

Stage Coach & First do not seem bothered at All about there South Yorkshire passengers,Loads were stranded in town again last night with the Stage Coach Number 1 and First Number 11,not going on there general route to town,and no notices or poster telling consumers that they had changed there routes,loads waited outside the old market bus stop but both buses never came on that route,as the 76,98 and 97 did so why didn"t the Number 1 or 11 come on that road seem very odd,there should have been note on the bus stops telling consumers they could not do there regular route,so people will be not stranded getting home or to work

Roads and street side infrastructure including bus stops and the provision of information there is the responsibility of the local authority so public sector failure rather than private company.  The only resources the bus companies have of putting out service updates is Twitter and websites (for example here https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-updates/serviceupdatesarticle?SituationId=ID-21/11/2019-15:28:54:058)

Edited November 21, 2019 by Andy C

[Andy C 85]

On 19/11/2019 at 12:37, Bilge said:

They do as much as they are allowed to do by the legislation - which isn't much. They can cajole First and Stagecoach and the others a bit. But those companies have to make profits, they don't take orders from the PTE.

 

What the PTE don't do is run buses themselves or put out to tender loads of bus services all over the region. 

Sheffield operates under a voluntary bus partnership under the brand of "buses for Sheffield ", SYPTE coordinates the Network as part of this.

On 08/11/2019 at 14:01, Pettytom said:

I think that the lesson we should have learned from deregulation of public transport is that competition isn’t always a good thing. One provider, overseeing all the transport in a city is surely preferable to the ragbag of a service that we have in Sheffield.

 

I’m not fussy about whether the provider is public, or private. I would like someone to take an overarching view of the local buses, trams and trains.  Maybe then, we would get planning that allows  a transport system to do the things that the population of the city need, rather than simply trying  to generate a profit.

 

Some things are worth paying for.

Fares would be much higher without the competition