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General Election 12 December.

nikki-red

This is NOT to become a second Brexit thread.

Thank you.

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6 hours ago, janie48 said:

 

Well I do care.

 

I heard about them interfering in the French elections in the past with donations involved, and I don't understand why they find it so necessary.

 

The more I hear about their government meddling in other countries political affairs the more I realise how important it is that we  remain in the European Union.

The Russian interference is part of a wider strategy to spread chaos throughout the rest of the world. 
 

So far, they are doing pretty well. Trump is in the White House. Brexit is playing havoc with Europe.. Both of those elections were Russian influenced 

 

There is heavy Russian money backing Johnson’s campaign. If he gets a majority, I guess they will be delighted.

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6 hours ago, Car Boot said:

There is no Russian interference in UK elections.

 

It is simply a wild conspiracy theory that seeks to lay the blame for anti-establishment voting patterns on outside influences.

 

When in reality the establishment has lost control of its voter manipulation due to its own incompetence and greed.

Why have the Tories suppressed the Russia report then? Could it be down to the fact that it raises questions about the validity of the referendum result, which is the central issue in the general election campaign and could compromise the Tories pitch to the electorate to get Brexit done.

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The Papers on Sunday

 

4-1 to the Conservatives yet again.  3 others left the election off the front page.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs/the_papers

 

 

 

8 hours ago, janie48 said:

 

Well I do care.

 

I heard about them interfering in the French elections in the past with donations involved, and I don't understand why they find it so necessary.

 

The more I hear about their government meddling in other countries political affairs the more I realise how important it is that we  remain in the European Union.

My previous was particular to the item under discussion.

I think the facts are important and the real or imagined connection to Russia is a deleberate distraction. There is always a tendancy to shoot the messenger/whistle blower/the person who rocks the boat by vested interests.

Edited by Flanker7

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It seems that the general consensus is that influencing the outcomes of foreign elections/policy decisions/favours etc.. is a new thing.

 

Every country spies on eachother/manipulates elections/plays dirty. They all do it. We do it.  The faux outrage is pathetic.

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3 minutes ago, crookesjoe said:

It seems that the general consensus is that influencing the outcomes of foreign elections/policy decisions/favours etc.. is a new thing.

 

Every country spies on eachother/manipulates elections/plays dirty. They all do it. We do it.  The faux outrage is pathetic.

Why do you think the Russians want Brexit?

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11 hours ago, lottiecass said:

No need for the wake up call flanker, no party would dare sell the nhs, it would be political suicide.

By the time it's sold it'll be too late, and there will be no political suicide as by election time the electorate will be sufficiently distracted by the latest smokescreen/scapegoat, probably something to do with immigration again.

Decades ago it would have been viewed as inconcievable that things like the expenses scandal, MPs lying openly, displaying unashamed total lack of integrity, covering up banking and corporate criminality, etc, etc, etc would lead to anything but 'political suicide'.  Clearly, it didn't.

Be very wary of thinking that there is a limit to how far things can be pushed before the voting public reach 'breaking point'- by all evidence of the past few decades, there is no such limit.

Whilever neoliberalism reigns, the NHS sale is most definitly on the table, and, America would LOVE to get it's teeth into it.

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12 hours ago, lottiecass said:

No need for the wake up call flanker, no party would dare sell the nhs, it would be political suicide.

It won't be obvious, it will be done covertly, in dribs and drabs, something the Conservatives excell at. After 10 years of Tory rule there are already areas of the nhs which have been privatised, the most notable being the care system which is in the hands of private companies and in such a mess. Care homes charging extortionate amounts for comparatively little, and home care giving unsatisfactory care to clients (this is not a slur on the hardworking carers, but a system which doesn't allow enough time to do a good job because the bottom line is profit,) is purely down to privatisation.

 

Did you vote for Thatcher to sell off all our Utilities which were never hers to sell? Or privatise the railways, shipbuilding, Royal Mail etc and most of our manufacturing (what was left of it) to private companies? Did you even know about it? One thing the Tories are excellent at is propoganda and spin which they use to great effect to cover their tracks. 

Edited by Anna B

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4 hours ago, Pettytom said:

The Russian interference is part of a wider strategy to spread chaos throughout the rest of the world. 

But is it as it seems a bit illogical? If chaos is what Russia is aiming for then Russia will also be severely affected by it as it needs the rest of the world to trade with to survive. The sanctions imposed on Russia by the US and EU have already had a severe impact on Russia and are still in force and any chaos will make it worse for them.

 

4 hours ago, Pettytom said:

So far, they are doing pretty well. Trump is in the White House. Brexit is playing havoc with Europe.. Both of those elections were Russian influenced 

There is data suggesting Russia had interfered with the US elections but as to what extent they influenced them is not known or quantifiable. As far as the UK is concerned how much influence Russia had on the EU referendum is also not known or quantifiable. Basically people are just guessing about the impact and coming up with Russia as the baddies. 

 

4 hours ago, Pettytom said:

There is heavy Russian money backing Johnson’s campaign. If he gets a majority, I guess they will be delighted.

Is there, what is the source of that information?

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2 minutes ago, apelike said:

Is there, what is the source of that information?

I have no intention of spoon feeding you. Large donations to political parties is a matter of public record.

 

Go and look for yourself.

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Did you vote for Thatcher to sell off all our Utilities which were never hers to sell? Or privatise the railways, shipbuilding, Royal Mail etc and most of our manufacturing (what was left of it) to private companies?

The utilities were in state ownership so Thatcher being in charge of the country and state by proxy had the the power to make the decisions to sell them off. 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Pettytom said:

I have no intention of spoon feeding you. Large donations to political parties is a matter of public record.

 

Go and look for yourself.

I have and can see Russians now based in the UK giving money but can't see where there is Russian money or any source for that claim. As you have said it's a matter of public record and that shows Russian oligarchs have given donations to the Conservative but the donations have not come from Russia. Russian oligarchs have also bought companies and football teams in the UK and the US as well.

 

Don't forget that it was you who stated it was Russian money.

Edited by apelike

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1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

I have no intention of spoon feeding you. Large donations to political parties is a matter of public record.

 

Go and look for yourself.


Thats not how it works. If youre going to make claims please be prepared to back them up.

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