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General Election 12 December.

nikki-red

This is NOT to become a second Brexit thread.

Thank you.

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4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

 

Council care homes in Derbyshire cost about the same as private ones. I’ll bet the staff aren’t paid much better and the food was as bad as any other similarly priced private concern. And they aren’t all printing money by the look of it. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/11/over-400-care-home-operators-collapse-in-five-years-as-cuts-take-toll

 

I read an article on the bbc about a nurse who ran a nursing home in Sheffield and she’s going to have close soon because she can’t afford to keep it open. I can’t find it which is a shame. 

My settings mustn't be good. I've noticed that the Guardian counts my views. I noticed this yesterday in another post (it said I have read 6 articles on this site in the last month), now I clicked this and it says 7.

 

tbf, at least they're honest.

 

 

just as an aside @tinfoilhat

Edited by *_ash_*
corrections

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Just now, *_ash_* said:

I notice my settings mustn't be good. I've noticed that the Guardian counts my views. I noticed this yesterday in another post (it's said you have read 6 articles on this site in the last month), now I clicked this and it says 7.

 

tbf, at least they're honest.

 

 

just as an aside @tinfoilhat

I’ve never noticed but at least our views count somewhere ;);););)

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Just now, tinfoilhat said:

I’ve never noticed but at least our views count somewhere ;);););)

I've screen shot it, but can't seem to add it. Not worked this out yet.

 

It's generally at the bottom of the article, but above all the advs and nonsense.

Just now, *_ash_* said:

I've screen shot it, but can't seem to add it. Not worked this out yet.

 

It's generally at the bottom of the article, but above all the advs and nonsense.

also, it doesn't count individual articles, as I'm now up to 9, having screen shot it, and then looked again to see where it says it! :hihi:

 

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1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

 

Council care homes in Derbyshire cost about the same as private ones. I’ll bet the staff aren’t paid much better and the food was as bad as any other similarly priced private concern. And they aren’t all printing money by the look of it. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/11/over-400-care-home-operators-collapse-in-five-years-as-cuts-take-toll

 

I read an article on the bbc about a nurse who ran a nursing home in Sheffield and she’s going to have close soon because she can’t afford to keep it open. I can’t find it which is a shame. 

I believe you, I've seen such cases too. But it raises several questions. What was the occupancy rate? Do they pay full business rates? If fee paying private schools can register as charities and get various benefits, can small independent care homes? Are there any government subsidies? And where does the money go? I've never managed to see a proper breakdown of care home costs. What is the biggest expense? In my experience it certainly doesn't go on the patients. There are never enough staff, and the ones there are, are poorly paid, even in the big chains. It doesn't add up.

 

If a care home charging £800 a week can't cover its costs there is something seriously wrong with the system. For that money I can get on a cruise where the food is fantastic and plentiful, staff to passenger ratio is 2 to 1, and the service is 24/7 and second to none. There's also a doctor and nurses on board which is more than I can say for care homes where it's as difficult to see a doctor and get treatment as it is in the real world,.

Edited by Anna B

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8 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Posted in error.. 

 

Edited by Anna B

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9 minutes ago, Anna B said:

 

 

If a care home charging £800 a week can't cover its costs there is something seriously wrong with the system. For that money I can get on a cruise where the food is fantastic and plentiful, staff to passenger ratio is 2 to 1, and the service is 24/7 and second to none. There's also a doctor and nurses on board which is more than I can say for care homes where it's as difficult to see a doctor and get treatment as it is in the real world,.

That's correct Anna.. there was a travel programme on the tele a few years ago, where an elderly lady spent 12months a year on cruise ships for exactly the reasons you quote... I suspect you also saw it.

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28 minutes ago, Padders said:

That's correct Anna.. there was a travel programme on the tele a few years ago, where an elderly lady spent 12months a year on cruise ships for exactly the reasons you quote... I suspect you also saw it.

I didn't see it, but I have heard of people doing it. I don't blame them.

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Proposals like that are all well and good but it is on the massive assumption that the passenger is perfectly fit and mobile and does not require any specialist care or treatment.

 

Yes there are doctors and nurses on board the ships but they are not the NHS and have a hefty bill attached to any treatment received.  Even getting a simple prescription or a quick check up has a charge.

 

How much are all those travel insurance policies going to cost to cover the costs of the same and any other eventualities.

 

There is also the big concern that if anything did happen one could be thousands of miles away from home. 

 

How about the consideration of loneliness.  Yes they are other passengers but they are not friends and neighbours or a support group day in day out.

 

I doubt everyone will be able to cope with having their family on the other side of the world and unable to pop round once a week for a visit.

 

I have seen it done as described above but the people generally doing these things are rich elites who can afford to do so for months and years time without any financial worries about how the bill is going to be picked up at the other end.  They can afford the private doctors. they can afford to have their family join them on a regular basis.

 

I really don't think it is that simple as people make out.  

Edited by ECCOnoob

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2 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Proposals like that are all well and good but it is on the massive assumption that the passenger is perfectly fit and mobile and does not require any specialist care or treatment.

 

Yes there are doctors and nurses on board the ships but they are not the NHS and have a hefty bill attached to any treatment received.  Even getting a simple prescription are a quick check up has a charge.

 

How much are all those travel insurance policies going to cost to cover the cost of the same and any other eventualities.

 

There is also the big concern that if anything did happen one could be thousands of miles away from home. 

 

How about the consideration of loneliness.  Yes they are other passengers but they are not friends and neighbours or a support group day in day out.

 

I doubt everyone will be able to cope with having their family on the other side of the world and unable to pop round once a week for a visit.

 

I have seen it done as described above but the people generally doing these things are rich elites who can afford to do so for months and years time without any financial worries about how the bill is going to be picked up at the other end.

 

I really don't think it is that simple as people make out.  

The point is that it costs less than a care home which is nowhere near in the same league in any respect. Ships have lifts, and special arrangements for disabled travellers to help them access the things on offer, such as provission of  disability scooters and a companion to accompany a lone person on a trip on shore.

As for lonliness, have you ever been in a care home with all the chairs arranged round the edge of the communal lounge, and absolutely no one talking to anyone else, nor being encouraged to. I've witnessed it in just about every care home I've been in.  As for family, sadly some residents never see them from one year to the next.

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24 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I didn't see it, but I have heard of people doing it. I don't blame them.

Somehow I don't think they'll get help with dressing, washing, toileting, changing dressings, administering medication and the myriad of other services care homes provide over and above "hotel" services.

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3 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Somehow I don't think they'll get help with dressing, washing, toileting, changing dressings, administering medication and the myriad of other services care homes provide over and above "hotel" services.

That is nursing care which is different to residential care, and IMO should be considered an offshoot of the NHS and provided free. There will be a medical condition behind all of these needs. 

Incidently, I have seen care assistants (in Uniform,) attending old people resident in big hotels. It's a lot cheaper than a care / residential home. 

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25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

The point is that it costs less than a care home which is nowhere near in the same league in any respect. Ships have lifts, and special arrangements for disabled travellers to help them access the things on offer, such as provission of  disability scooters and a companion to accompany a lone person on a trip on shore.

As for lonliness, have you ever been in a care home with all the chairs arranged round the edge of the communal lounge, and absolutely no one talking to anyone else, nor being encouraged to. I've witnessed it in just about every care home I've been in.  As for family, sadly some residents never see them from one year to the next.

Of course it costs less.  Care Homes have to provide so much more. 

 

Anna lets just stop and think for a moment shall we.   Firstly you are completely ignoring my first and most important point.  Cruise Passengers have to have a certain level of mobility and cognative function to get on board.   They have to be insured through travel insurance and if they dont get it, they would be suicidal to go without.     

 

You talk about 'passenger assistance' as if its some perfectly equiped mobile retirement home.  It isnt.

 

Cruise Ships dont have facilities for poor dementure patients who could just wander off out of their rooms and go overboard.  They dont have teams of medically trained staff on hand to look after one passenger who needs daily medication dispensing or minor treatments.   The infirmary on board ships and the staff within them are for the entire passengers and crew.    They are not designed nor stocked for continual use by special needs patients.   Ships dont have employ 24/7 carers on board to cater for passengers who need to be constantly supported to go to the toilet or be fed or put in and out of bed.  Their staff arn't paid - let alone trained to spend their days escorting passengers around the entire ship all day in case they fall over. 

 

Those excursions you talk about with its special facilities and escorts cost money.  Quite a lot dependant on the location and type.  Add that onto the bill shall we.   

 

Yes I have seen the inside of a care home thank you.  My brother is in one.   It is a sad sight to see people sat around not talking.  Its the same with mental health homes not just elderly care homes FYI.   However, that can be part of the condition they are suffering and not anything to do with "not being encouraged" I think that is complete nonsense. 

 

Its not perfect.  Not at all.  But to try and compare a cruise ship with the sorts of responsibilities, costs, regulation and facilities that a care home is required to provide is ludicrous. 

 

Look beyond the numbers.  

 

 

 

Edited by ECCOnoob

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