Jump to content


General Election 12 December.

nikki-red

This is NOT to become a second Brexit thread.

Thank you.

Message added by nikki-red

Recommended Posts

28 minutes ago, Padders said:

That's correct Anna.. there was a travel programme on the tele a few years ago, where an elderly lady spent 12months a year on cruise ships for exactly the reasons you quote... I suspect you also saw it.

I didn't see it, but I have heard of people doing it. I don't blame them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Proposals like that are all well and good but it is on the massive assumption that the passenger is perfectly fit and mobile and does not require any specialist care or treatment.

 

Yes there are doctors and nurses on board the ships but they are not the NHS and have a hefty bill attached to any treatment received.  Even getting a simple prescription or a quick check up has a charge.

 

How much are all those travel insurance policies going to cost to cover the costs of the same and any other eventualities.

 

There is also the big concern that if anything did happen one could be thousands of miles away from home. 

 

How about the consideration of loneliness.  Yes they are other passengers but they are not friends and neighbours or a support group day in day out.

 

I doubt everyone will be able to cope with having their family on the other side of the world and unable to pop round once a week for a visit.

 

I have seen it done as described above but the people generally doing these things are rich elites who can afford to do so for months and years time without any financial worries about how the bill is going to be picked up at the other end.  They can afford the private doctors. they can afford to have their family join them on a regular basis.

 

I really don't think it is that simple as people make out.  

Edited by ECCOnoob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Proposals like that are all well and good but it is on the massive assumption that the passenger is perfectly fit and mobile and does not require any specialist care or treatment.

 

Yes there are doctors and nurses on board the ships but they are not the NHS and have a hefty bill attached to any treatment received.  Even getting a simple prescription are a quick check up has a charge.

 

How much are all those travel insurance policies going to cost to cover the cost of the same and any other eventualities.

 

There is also the big concern that if anything did happen one could be thousands of miles away from home. 

 

How about the consideration of loneliness.  Yes they are other passengers but they are not friends and neighbours or a support group day in day out.

 

I doubt everyone will be able to cope with having their family on the other side of the world and unable to pop round once a week for a visit.

 

I have seen it done as described above but the people generally doing these things are rich elites who can afford to do so for months and years time without any financial worries about how the bill is going to be picked up at the other end.

 

I really don't think it is that simple as people make out.  

The point is that it costs less than a care home which is nowhere near in the same league in any respect. Ships have lifts, and special arrangements for disabled travellers to help them access the things on offer, such as provission of  disability scooters and a companion to accompany a lone person on a trip on shore.

As for lonliness, have you ever been in a care home with all the chairs arranged round the edge of the communal lounge, and absolutely no one talking to anyone else, nor being encouraged to. I've witnessed it in just about every care home I've been in.  As for family, sadly some residents never see them from one year to the next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I didn't see it, but I have heard of people doing it. I don't blame them.

Somehow I don't think they'll get help with dressing, washing, toileting, changing dressings, administering medication and the myriad of other services care homes provide over and above "hotel" services.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Somehow I don't think they'll get help with dressing, washing, toileting, changing dressings, administering medication and the myriad of other services care homes provide over and above "hotel" services.

That is nursing care which is different to residential care, and IMO should be considered an offshoot of the NHS and provided free. There will be a medical condition behind all of these needs. 

Incidently, I have seen care assistants (in Uniform,) attending old people resident in big hotels. It's a lot cheaper than a care / residential home. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

The point is that it costs less than a care home which is nowhere near in the same league in any respect. Ships have lifts, and special arrangements for disabled travellers to help them access the things on offer, such as provission of  disability scooters and a companion to accompany a lone person on a trip on shore.

As for lonliness, have you ever been in a care home with all the chairs arranged round the edge of the communal lounge, and absolutely no one talking to anyone else, nor being encouraged to. I've witnessed it in just about every care home I've been in.  As for family, sadly some residents never see them from one year to the next.

Of course it costs less.  Care Homes have to provide so much more. 

 

Anna lets just stop and think for a moment shall we.   Firstly you are completely ignoring my first and most important point.  Cruise Passengers have to have a certain level of mobility and cognative function to get on board.   They have to be insured through travel insurance and if they dont get it, they would be suicidal to go without.     

 

You talk about 'passenger assistance' as if its some perfectly equiped mobile retirement home.  It isnt.

 

Cruise Ships dont have facilities for poor dementure patients who could just wander off out of their rooms and go overboard.  They dont have teams of medically trained staff on hand to look after one passenger who needs daily medication dispensing or minor treatments.   The infirmary on board ships and the staff within them are for the entire passengers and crew.    They are not designed nor stocked for continual use by special needs patients.   Ships dont have employ 24/7 carers on board to cater for passengers who need to be constantly supported to go to the toilet or be fed or put in and out of bed.  Their staff arn't paid - let alone trained to spend their days escorting passengers around the entire ship all day in case they fall over. 

 

Those excursions you talk about with its special facilities and escorts cost money.  Quite a lot dependant on the location and type.  Add that onto the bill shall we.   

 

Yes I have seen the inside of a care home thank you.  My brother is in one.   It is a sad sight to see people sat around not talking.  Its the same with mental health homes not just elderly care homes FYI.   However, that can be part of the condition they are suffering and not anything to do with "not being encouraged" I think that is complete nonsense. 

 

Its not perfect.  Not at all.  But to try and compare a cruise ship with the sorts of responsibilities, costs, regulation and facilities that a care home is required to provide is ludicrous. 

 

Look beyond the numbers.  

 

 

 

Edited by ECCOnoob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Anna B said:

That is nursing care which is different to residential care, and IMO should be considered an offshoot of the NHS and provided free. There will be a medical condition behind all of these needs. 

Incidently, I have seen care assistants (in Uniform,) attending old people resident in big hotels. It's a lot cheaper than a care / residential home. 

Wrong Anna - I was describing residential care.

 

https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/whats-the-difference-between-a-care-home-and-a-nursing-home/

 

"Residential care homes – provides ‘home-style’, live-in accommodation, with 24 hour-a-day supervised staffing for elderly residents, who may need extra help and support with their personal care. For example, help with things such as washing, dressing, personal hygiene, medication, toileting, communication, feeding, mobility and essential laundry needs, to name a few. Residential care homes provide dining facilities, and often include social programmes and activities (eg music/yoga classes/arts therapy/outings) for their residents;"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Anna B said:

That is nursing care which is different to residential care, and IMO should be considered an offshoot of the NHS and provided free. There will be a medical condition behind all of these needs. 

Incidently, I have seen care assistants (in Uniform,) attending old people resident in big hotels. It's a lot cheaper than a care / residential home. 

So you think our tax monies should be spent sending nurses and carers all over the country and world to visit patients living in exotic hotels or on board cruise ships rather than dealing with several patients in a single, purpose built, sufficiently equiped facility. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Of course it costs less.  Care Homes have to provide so much more. 

 

Anna lets just stop and think for a moment shall we.   Firstly you are completely ignoring my first and most important point.  Cruise Passengers have to have a certain level of mobility and cognative function to get on board.   They have to be insured through travel insurance and if they dont get it, they would be suicidal to go without.     

 

You talk about 'passenger assistance' as if its some perfectly equiped mobile retirement home.  It isnt.

 

Cruise Ships dont have facilities for poor dementure patients who could just wander off out of their rooms and go overboard.  They dont have teams of medically trained staff on hand to look after one passenger who needs daily medication dispensing or minor treatments.   The infirmary on board ships and the staff within them are for the entire passengers and crew.    They are not designed nor stocked for continual use by special needs patients.   Ships dont have employ 24/7 carers on board to cater for passengers who need to be constantly supported to go to the toilet or be fed or put in and out of bed.  Their staff arn't paid - let alone trained to spend their days escorting passengers around the entire ship all day in case they fall over. 

 

Those excursions you talk about with its special facilities and escorts cost money.  Quite a lot dependant on the location and type.  Add that onto the bill shall we.   

 

Yes I have seen the inside of a care home thank you.  My brother is in one.   It is a sad sight to see people sat around not talking.  Its the same with mental health homes not just elderly care homes FYI.   However, that can be part of the condition they are suffering and not anything to do with "not being encouraged" I think that is complete nonsense. 

 

Its not perfect.  Not at all.  But to try and compare a cruise ship with the sorts of responsibilities, costs, regulation and facilities that a care home is required to provide is ludicrous. 

 

Look beyond the numbers.  

 

 

 

But the numbers are the nub of this. If anybody on here can give me a breakdown of where the £800 per week goes I would be grateful. And I would also need the occupancy rate.

 

Incidently the amount paid to family carers to care for a person 24/7 which may well include them having to give up a well paid job to do it, and lose various pension benefits etc, is an absolute pittance, (about £60 a week, compared to the  care homes £800!) especially when you think how much these carers save the NHS.

Also, now that women have to work until 65, they have lost an army of carers, and will see even more people in hospital and care homes..

Edited by Anna B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Anna B said:

But the numbers are the nub of this. If anybody on here can give me a breakdown of where the £800 per week goes I would be grateful. And I would also need the occupancy rate.

 

Incidently the amount paid to family carers to care for a person 24/7 which may well include them having to give up a well paid job to do it, and lose various pension benefits etc, is an absolute pittance, (about £60 a week, compared to the  care homes £800!) especially when you think how much these carers save the NHS.

Also, now that women have to work until 65, they have lost an army of carers, and will see even more people in hospital and care homes..

Care to answer my post #865 showing you are wrong regarding what constitutes residential / nursing care?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Anna B said:

But the numbers are the nub of this. If anybody on here can give me a breakdown of where the £800 per week goes I would be grateful. And I would also need the occupancy rate.

 

Incidently the amount paid to family carers to care for a person 24/7 which may well include them having to give up a well paid job to do it, and lose various pension benefits etc, is an absolute pittance, (about £60 a week, compared to the  care homes £800!) especially when you think how much these carers save the NHS.

Also, now that women have to work until 65, they have lost an army of carers, and will see even more people in hospital and care homes..

The Joseph Rountree Foundation did this in 2002.  Its not hard to find if you were that interested. 

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/calculating-operating-costs-care-homes

 

They concluded back then that:-

 

On the basis of UK average wages and land prices in 2001, and a 16% return on capital, the study estimates the full cost of operating an efficient, good quality care home meeting all national minimum standards at £459 per week for nursing care of older people and £353 per week for residential care.

 

So, 17 years later what do you think it should be.

 

The National Minimum Wage alone has increased by nearly 95% since back then.  How much do you think supplies, equipment, premises, utilities etc have gone up by since that date.   Average life expectancy has also gone up by another 2 years since that date too. 

 

Edited by ECCOnoob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Care to answer my post #865 showing you are wrong regarding what constitutes residential / nursing care?

I don't see your point. I know all these things happen in residential care. It still doesn't justify £800 per week (or £3,200 a month if you prefer it, or £38,400 a year.) It's astronomical and outrageous to charge ordinary people who have probably never even earned that much in a year to sit and vegitate. And I believe in some places 'hotel' charges for food and board go on top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.