General Election 12 December.

[alchresearch 214]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

The anti-semitism problems are not being allowed to go away. A handy strategy to divert discussion away from Tory shortcomings of which there are many, including racism and Islamaphobia. 

But many of the people who call out antisemitism in Labour are not Tory supporters, especially the more famous ones on Twitter.

 

Take David Baddiel for instance, he's certainly no Tory fan.

 

You need a better excuse than "whataboutism".

 

And although there are problems in all parties:

 

Lib Dems suspend election candidate accused of making anti-semitic comments

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/news/108101/lib-dems-suspend-election-candidate-accused

 

Tory Aberdeen candidate suspended for 'unacceptable' comments

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-50468770

 

The big difference is that they seem to act on complaints and suspend.  How many Labour ones are still pending, after months and years?

Edited November 26, 2019 by alchresearch

[melthebell 862]

1 minute ago, alchresearch said:

But many of the people who call out antisemitism in Labour are not Tory supporters, especially the more famous ones on Twitter.

 

Take David Baddiel for instance, he's certainly no Tory fan.

 

You need a better excuse than "whataboutism".

Certain Rabbis are though, maybe Baddiel believes it as Rabbis are saying it

[hobinfoot 25]

3 hours ago, Anna B said:

The anti-semitism problems are not being allowed to go away. A handy strategy to divert discussion away from Tory shortcomings of which there are many, including racism and Islamaphobia. 

Quite rightly they are not being allowed to go away. No racism should be.

[choogling 14]

A light hearted look at the forthcoming election not my work but from a local Facebook page

 

GLOATING VOTER

I’m stockpiling for harder times
I'm panicking and hoarding
But I won’t vote for Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

Of course I’d like to see more help
for those who face adversity
Of course folk shouldn’t have to pay
to go to university

And rent controls would be so good -
the costs that they’re absorbing
But I’ll not vote for Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

He’s hung out with some dodgy sorts -
the type a good guy hates
So I’ll ignore the tyrants who
that Johnson counts as mates

That Jezza has a silly beard
and seems a little boring
So I won’t vote for Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

He lives in bloody Islington
which means he’s an elite
(Although that borough’s home to some
of Britain’s poorest streets)

Let policies take second place
to personal performing
I like the right-wing clown much more
than I like Jeremy Corbyn

So stuff your free prescriptions as
I’ll gladly keep on paying
Quit moaning about food banks 'cos
I’m happy that they’re staying

And ******** to the planet,
climate change and global warming
I won’t be voting Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

Let's keep the railways private
and let's keep our wages low
And let our welfare state decline
and unemployment grow

And when they lay me down to rest
the news will be reporting
I died while on a waiting list
still hating Jeremy Corbyn

[L00b 441]

3 hours ago, apelike said:

Not a strawman, just pointing out as another poster has done the fallacy of that argument.

"I can't see where in that quote it states that 20% will be binned" is not a strawman argument?

 

Do you want to look up the definition, maybe?

 

Not a good look for you, there.

3 hours ago, Robin-H said:

The quote is from the Tory manifesto, but your interpretation of the quote is incorrect. 

 

They are saying that they want 80% of trade to be covered by FTA within 3 years. Why do you think that means binning 20% of the UK trade? Do you think 100% of UK trade is currently done under FTAs? 

No, I know that around 60-65% of UK trade is done with EU member states and third countries with an EU FTA (Japan, Korea, Canada, etc.), leaving the balance on WTO terms.

 

But I also know that there is zero chance of the UK replacing the trade agreement structure which it currently enjoys as an (influential) EU member state, within 3 years, and so achieve '80% of UK trade under FTAs'. 

 

The first and main reason for that, is the make-up of that trade and the most profitable segment therein, exported UK services: FTAs do not cover services, just goods. Only the closest forms of 'FTAs', such as EU membership, begin to remove obstacles to trading services. But then such 'close partnetships' is exactly what the UK wants away from.

 

Come 31 January 2020 (later if there is an extension, however politically unlikely it currently looks) you're going to get rather the crash-course about something which your 80% services-based economy has long, long forgotten about: non-tarriff barriers (and find out that this 20% figure is actually pretty optimistic).

 

I recommend Sir Ivan Rogers' recent lecture to Glasgow University to you, on this topic. Masterfully concise, informed and eloquent.

 

Sloganeering politicians, especially the hardline Tories, don't want you to think too critically about the full ins and outs of their proposed policies today, no more than they did in 2016 and 2017. They'd never get voted in otherwise. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by L00b

[apelike 10]

49 minutes ago, L00b said:

"I can't see where in that quote it states that 20% will be binned" is not a strawman argument?

 

Do you want to look up the definition, maybe?

Not really... Easier to ask you why 20% will be binned as you obviously didn't read what the manifesto actually said and put your own spin on it. Maybe not a proper straw argument but certainly a fake one!

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 hours ago, hobinfoot said:

Quite rightly they are not being allowed to go away. No racism should be.

Are you seriously suggesting that using the plight of the Jewish people to attack political enemies is not in itself antisemitic and therefore racist?

[Anna B 1,401]

1 hour ago, choogling said:

A light hearted look at the forthcoming election not my work but from a local Facebook page

 

GLOATING VOTER

I’m stockpiling for harder times
I'm panicking and hoarding
But I won’t vote for Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

Of course I’d like to see more help
for those who face adversity
Of course folk shouldn’t have to pay
to go to university

And rent controls would be so good -
the costs that they’re absorbing
But I’ll not vote for Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

He’s hung out with some dodgy sorts -
the type a good guy hates
So I’ll ignore the tyrants who
that Johnson counts as mates

That Jezza has a silly beard
and seems a little boring
So I won’t vote for Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

He lives in bloody Islington
which means he’s an elite
(Although that borough’s home to some
of Britain’s poorest streets)

Let policies take second place
to personal performing
I like the right-wing clown much more
than I like Jeremy Corbyn

So stuff your free prescriptions as
I’ll gladly keep on paying
Quit moaning about food banks 'cos
I’m happy that they’re staying

And ******** to the planet,
climate change and global warming
I won’t be voting Labour 'cos
I don’t like Jeremy Corbyn

Let's keep the railways private
and let's keep our wages low
And let our welfare state decline
and unemployment grow

And when they lay me down to rest
the news will be reporting
I died while on a waiting list
still hating Jeremy Corbyn

😊That's brilliant.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Anna B

[Baron99 779]

Seen Corbyn doing some nifty sidestepping that Ronaldo would be proud of regarding the Chief Rabbi's claims of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. 

 

All I've seen today is Corbyn stating it's a society wide problem.  Never once mentioned Labour's problems with it.  So it's everyone else's fault / problem except his. 

 

Talk about trying to deflect the issue rather than addressing it.  Apparently this continues in his Andrew Neil interview on BBC 2 tonight. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/election-2019-50564965

 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

Seen Corbyn doing some nifty sidestepping that Ronaldo would be proud of regarding the Chief Rabbi's claims of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party. . 

Why on earth should he give it any credence?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Top Cats Hat

[Anna B 1,401]

Chief Rabbi is a big Tory apparently.

If, as he says, it's been a problem for some time, he's chosen a curious time to voice his concerns. I wonder why he's chosen to do it now? Any ideas?

[Car Boot 10]

Jo Swinson's Liberal Democrats have promised that a majority win for them at the election is a mandate to revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit without another EU referendum. But a majority for the Tories will require a further mandate, another referendum, to get Brexit done. 

 

When has it ever been fair or democratic to cancel a referendum vote?

Edited November 26, 2019 by Car Boot