Robin-H   11 #613 Posted November 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Pettytom said: Well there could be middle ground, but £12bn a year is an extraordinary amount for a government to take from a group of citizens. Maybe that’s when the middle ground should have been found. Why isn't  Labour working out how much in benefits people have missed out on since these were frozen, or how much the public sector workers have missed out on since their wages were frozen, add it all up, and pay them back everything that has been 'taken' from them? They had much less notice, as the main pension changes were announced in 1995. What's the difference?  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Pettytom   1 #614 Posted November 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Robin-H said: Why isn't  Labour working out how much in benefits people have missed out on since these were frozen, or how much the public sector workers have missed out on since their wages were frozen, add it all up, and pay them back everything that has been 'taken' from them? They had much less notice, as the main pension changes were announced in 1995. What's the difference?  You seem very comfortable with the idea that the state can remove billions of pounds from a group  of female workers . Why aren’t you questioning the decision of the Tories  to impoverish these people.  It is a nasty piece of cost cutting. Typical Tory stuff though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Robin-H   11 #615 Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Pettytom said: You seem very comfortable with the idea that the state can remove billions of pounds from a group  of female workers . Why aren’t you questioning the decision of the Tories  to impoverish these people.  It is a nasty piece of cost cutting. Typical Tory stuff though. The decision was made in 1993 (and made law in 1995) to address to the inequality between the fact that women retired earlier and lived longer, and so received more generous pensions in total than men.  Don't you think the pension age should be equalised? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Pettytom   1 #616 Posted November 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Robin-H said: The decision was made in 1993 (and made law in 1995) to address to the inequality between the fact that women retired earlier and lived longer, and so received more generous pensions in total than men.  Don't you think the pension age should be equalised? I do think that the pension age should be equalised. I also think that people shouldn’t be impoverished whilst that is brought about.  The Tories think that it is wrong, but won’t do anything about it.  The Lib Dem’s think it is wrong and will probably do something about it.  Labour think it is wrong and will do something about it.  You, on the other hand, seem to think that the impoverishment of the Waspi women is ok.  Why is that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Robin-H   11 #617 Posted November 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Pettytom said: I do think that the pension age should be equalised. I also think that people shouldn’t be impoverished whilst that is brought about.  The Tories think that it is wrong, but won’t do anything about it.  The Lib Dem’s think it is wrong and will probably do something about it.  Labour think it is wrong and will do something about it.  You, on the other hand, seem to think that the impoverishment of the Waspi women is ok.  Why is that? The Tories have already announced £1b in extra funding to mitigate people who were worst affected. Saying people are going to be 'impoverished' because of an 18 month delay to getting a state pension (a pension which is much more generous than it was when they were originally going to be getting it...) is hyperbole.  The changes were announced in 1995 (and got quite a bit of media coverage).  It should not have come out of the blue. I appreciate that despite this, some women were not aware of the changes, and a Parliamentary Committee concluded that more could have been done to make those affected by the changes more aware, but that was mainly a failing of the previous Labour government as letters didn't really get sent out until 2009, and very little direct communication was done between 1997-2010. A lot more has been done since then, but of course as the date is closer, there is less time to prepare.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #618 Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) More info about these under the radar facebook ads https://www.prweek.com/article/1666449/whos-behind-obscure-groups-funding-election-attack-campaigns-facebook  Quote "PR professionals must not disseminate false or misleading information. Doing so damages trust in our industry and in this case – the political process. We urge communications professionals to be mindful of their ethical responsibilities, particularly during a period of national importance." Quote The potential for voters being misled is huge. Edited November 25, 2019 by melthebell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #619 Posted November 25, 2019 That 6 minutes ago, melthebell said: More info about these under the radar facebook ads https://www.prweek.com/article/1666449/whos-behind-obscure-groups-funding-election-attack-campaigns-facebook  Quote:  "The potential for voters being misled is huge."  That should be "the potential for voters on facebook being misled is huge." The other assumes that everybody is on facebook which clearly is not the case. Many are also on twitter although that is also not free from misleading tweets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #620 Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, apelike said: That Quote:  "The potential for voters being misled is huge."  That should be "the potential for voters on facebook being misled is huge." The other assumes that everybody is on facebook which clearly is not the case. Many are also on twitter although that is also not free from misleading tweets. Im not on twitter, horrible platform, hated it when i got forced onto it by the DWP for jobhunting so i dont know (after i got my current job i quit twitter), presume these ads are on all social media though, for me they are party political but masquerade as nice little single issue ads that certain people might be interested in. Edited November 25, 2019 by melthebell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #621 Posted November 25, 2019 These ads seem to be basically facebook targeted. I think it's time we had a complete ban on all adds on social media during an election campaign, and I don't mean just here but in the USA as well. As you seem to have pointed out the potential to con people is huge especially as most seem to be easily conned by ads these days. Just look at the queues for black friday deals to see that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #622 Posted November 25, 2019 23 minutes ago, melthebell said: Im not on twitter, horrible platform, hated it when i got forced onto it by the DWP for jobhunting so i dont know (after i got my current job i quit twitter), presume these ads are on all social media though, for me they are party political but masquerade as nice little single issue ads that certain people might be interested in. Haven't Twitter said they won't run misleading political ads or something similar? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Pettytom   1 #623 Posted November 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, apelike said: These ads seem to be basically facebook targeted. I think it's time we had a complete ban on all adds on social media during an election campaign, and I don't mean just here but in the USA as well. As you seem to have pointed out the potential to con people is huge especially as most seem to be easily conned by ads these days. Just look at the queues for black friday deals to see that! I’ve been waging a one man war against the Facebook ads.  I’ve been reporting every single political ad I receive (mostly from right wing groups) as inappropriate, or as offensive.  They seem to be getting less frequent. Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Robin-H   11 #624 Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Pettytom said: I’ve been waging a one man war against the Facebook ads.  I’ve been reporting every single political ad I receive (mostly from right wing groups) as inappropriate, or as offensive.  They seem to be getting less frequent. Or maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part. Aren't Facebook ads targeted, so that people receive adverts that Facebook thinks would interest them?  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...