January 2020 Bus Service Changes

[RollingJ 2,042]

7 minutes ago, taxman said:

We've just tried purchasing online and after the faff of registering the card, inputting your details (why do they need to know my phone number and DOB?) etc etc you still need to download some stupid app.

 

They know my travelmaster card number why can't the new ticket just be loaded onto it online? Why do I need an android smartphone and app?

 

Or I can pick it up on board...which rather defeats the whole object.

 I can't answer your questions in the first paragraph, except to say that like most things controlled by the PTE, it was not well thought out.

 

In answer to the bolded bit though,  the answer is partly as I said above, but mainly because they have not got a 'back office' to administer it and they couldn't get all the operators to agree a common system. This lack of online loading facility is why I find it a bit of a pain - yes you can buy the ticket for month 2 before month 1 runs out from the vending machines, but I have months when I don't need to go into the city centre, meaning I have to make a special trip.

Also - my phone is just that,  a phone, so the app would have to be loaded to my iPad - a bit bulky to get out every time I got on a bus.

[Andy C 86]

currently you can buy Travelmaster tickets online but require the Travelmaster app to load it onto the smart card. From 2nd January ticket machines on services operated by First South Yorkshire, Stagecoach Yorkshire and Stagecoach Supertram will also be able to fulfill online sales to smart cards (Currently the Stagecoach smart back office can only fulfill online sales made via the Stagecoachbus.com website and the First smart back office cannot handle online transactions).

 

To load a product purchased online to a smartcard on board a bus or tram requires nothing more than scanning the card in the normal way.

 

On 14/12/2019 at 11:25, sinic said:

As I understand it they are getting rid of the 28 day Bus Only Megarider which currently costs £56 and replacing it with the 28 day Silver Megarider which will cost £62!

 

Whilst this ticket covers a larger area and now includes the Supertram, it has no increased benefit to me as I only use the bus for commuting to work in the town centre. 

 

They can sugarcoat it anyway they like but for me it means it's going to cost me a further £6 per month or £72 per year to go to work. 

 

Thank you so much Stagecoach

This is a combination of the normal annual price increase (inflation affecting cost of providing the service etc) and a simplification of the ticket range.

 

The replacement for Sheffield bus only Megarider is the Citybus from Travelmaster, valid on all bus operators in Sheffield and will cost £61.20 for a 28 day ticket. There is also a Citywide pass including trams, costing £65.60). See www.sytravelmaster.com for details of this.

 

The next level up is Megarider Silver, which includes all Stagecoach buses in South Yorkshire and Chesterfield along with Supertram, costing £62 for a 28 day ticket.

 

Above that as now is Megarider Gold, which includes all Stagecoach buses in South & West Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and Gainsborough plus Supertram, costing £88 for a 28 day ticket.

 

So to sum up, the new range for travel with Stagecoach is

 

Citybus, Citywide or tram only - just Sheffield

Silver - South Yorkshire & Chesterfield

Gold - as far afield as Leeds, Nottingham, Mansfield, Matlock, Buxton and Gainsborough.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Andy C

[RollingJ 2,042]

13 minutes ago, Andy C said:

currently you can buy Travelmaster tickets online but require the Travelmaster app to load it onto the smart card. From 2nd January ticket machines on services operated by First South Yorkshire, Stagecoach Yorkshire and Stagecoach Supertram will also be able to fulfill online sales to smart cards (Currently the Stagecoach smart back office can only fulfill online sales made via the Stagecoachbus.com website and the First smart back office cannot handle online transactions).

 

To load a product purchased online to a smartcard on board a bus or tram requires nothing more than scanning the card in the normal way.

Quote

 

More useful information, Andy - thanks. If that means I can order the 'First' 28 day online and load it to my card, it will be a great help - I'm just amazed it has taken them so long.

From my experience on GO-Ahead group operators, this takes maybe a second longer than a normal scan.

[Andy C 86]

1 minute ago, RollingJ said:

More useful information, Andy - thanks. If that means I can order the 'First' 28 day online and load it to my card, it will be a great help - I'm just amazed it has taken them so long.

From my experience on GO-Ahead group operators, this takes maybe a second longer than a normal scan.

As far as I am aware, if First don't currently sell their tickets that way then it will only be Travelmaster products (ie Citybus, Citwide and SY Connect). However First haven't yet announced their 2020 fares change.

 

Stagecoach already fulfill Megarider tickets sold online onto smart cards on board buses and trams, the scan may take slightly longer but not to a noticeable degree.

[RollingJ 2,042]

3 minutes ago, Andy C said:

As far as I am aware, if First don't currently sell their tickets that way then it will only be Travelmaster products (ie Citybus, Citwide and SY Connect). However First haven't yet announced their 2020 fares change.

 

Stagecoach already fulfill Megarider tickets sold online onto smart cards on board buses and trams, the scan may take slightly longer but not to a noticeable degree.

Thought I was being a bit forward there . The strange thing is, some FG areas do already do online sales/load on bus (Bristol certainly, and I think Southampton)

[Andy C 86]

31 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Thought I was being a bit forward there . The strange thing is, some FG areas do already do online sales/load on bus (Bristol certainly, and I think Southampton)

with First nationally it has been all about getting people to use their app, although the main goal is to significantly reduce the number of passengers buying tickets from the bus driver in order to reduce delays at bus stops. If they have developed an online sales facility at First that connects with their smart card back office system then there may be an announcement on that topic alongside fare/ticket changes whenever they announce that, of course this is pure speculation.

 

9 hours ago, RollingJ said:

As has been said before, London are running a system which is not lawful, but they - somehow - got an exemption.

 

I agree with the points you make though, and modified 'Oyster' systems work elsewhere, although these are contactless 'tap on - tap off' rather than a dedicated card.

things have moved on from Oyster in London now, with smart cards only being used for season tickets, concessionary passes and those people who don't use a contactless bank card.

 

If by Oyster you mean pay as you go with daily price caps (ie you tap your bank card or pre paid smart card on the reader each trip and it charges you the single fare but caps out at the cost of an all day pass) this works in London as it is a relatively simple geographically limited area and just one system operator (Transport for London).

 

Transport for the North has aspirations for a similar system, however it is a lot more complicated. You have a multitude of different bus, tram and train operators and long distance trains involved, some of which offer a choice of First or Standard class accommodation. The other issue is in London the penalty fare charged if you don't tap out is the most expensive single on the system, in London that would be about a tenner, in the North the longest train journey might be Liverpool to Newcastle and cost nearer £100! (then there are the potential connecting bus services...)

 

There are local trials going on at some bus operators though. For example First bus are trying it in Doncaster.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Andy C

[RollingJ 2,042]

25 minutes ago, Andy C said:

with First nationally it has been all about getting people to use their app, although the main goal is to significantly reduce the number of passengers buying tickets from the bus driver in order to reduce delays at bus stops. If they have developed an online sales facility at First that connects with their smart card back office system then there may be an announcement on that topic alongside fare/ticket changes whenever they announce that, of course this is pure speculation.

I understand that, but there are some like me who don't use/have a smartphone. I have a feeling though that in South Yorkshire, they are just piggy-backing on the Travelmaster to save costs in a low-profit centre.

 

17 minutes ago, Andy C said:

things have moved on from Oyster in London now, with smart cards only being used for season tickets, concessionary passes and those people who don't use a contactless bank card.

 

If by Oyster you mean pay as you go with daily price caps (ie you tap your bank card or pre paid smart card on the reader each trip and it charges you the single fare but caps out at the cost of an all day pass) this works in London as it is a relatively simple geographically limited area and just one system operator (Transport for London).

 

Transport for the North has aspirations for a similar system, however it is a lot more complicated. You have a multitude of different bus, tram and train operators and long distance trains involved, some of which offer a choice of First or Standard class accommodation. The other issue is in London the penalty fare charged if you don't tap out is the most expensive single on the system, in London that would be about a tenner, in the North the longest train journey might be Liverpool to Newcastle and cost nearer £100! (then there are the potential connecting bus services...)

 

There are local trials going on at some bus operators though. For example First bus are trying it in Doncaster.

True, but as far as I know, they still accept cash in Doncaster. I can't remember where I read of the 'fudge' that allows TfL to refuse cash, but wherever it was also linked to the relevant law they were operating against.

[Andy C 86]

9 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

True, but as far as I know, they still accept cash in Doncaster. I can't remember where I read of the 'fudge' that allows TfL to refuse cash, but wherever it was also linked to the relevant law they were operating against.

Indeed. London it is contactless or smart only, no cash. However seniors, disabled and children all travel free of charge at taxpayers expense and there are local shops that sell Oyster cards all over London. They also have a cheap flat fare subsidised by the taxpayer that makes things simple too.

 

I suspect from a customer service point of view, it would be brave to withdraw cash payment from buses in the North. Also not to forget most of the smaller bus operators do not yet have the facility to take card payment and it costs a lot of money to replace ticket machines!

 

16 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

I understand that, but there are some like me who don't use/have a smartphone. I have a feeling though that in South Yorkshire, they are just piggy-backing on the Travelmaster to save costs in a low-profit centre.

I suspect it is more likely First simply haven't got the online infrastructure - it is very complex and costs thousands of pounds to be developed.

 

Stagecoach Group have a very impressive back office online which includes the stagecoachbus.com website, e-shop, app, journey planner, ticket machines, scheduling software, vehicle tracking systems and smart cards - all linked together.  Most other operators simply don't have that level of resource.

[RollingJ 2,042]

2 minutes ago, Andy C said:

I suspect it is more likely First simply haven't got the online infrastructure - it is very complex and costs thousands of pounds to be developed.

 

Stagecoach Group have a very impressive back office online which includes the stagecoachbus.com website, e-shop, app, journey planner, ticket machines, scheduling software, vehicle tracking systems and smart cards - all linked together.  Most other operators simply don't have that level of resource.

I understand all that too - I was lucky enough to see the whole Brighton & Hove set-up a couple of years ago, and as I understand it, all Go-Ahead group companies have the same facilities, so it can be done.

 

B&H also have an impressive linked system/website very similar to the Stagecoach one.

[Resident 1,193]

11 hours ago, RollingJ said:

As has been said before, London are running a system which is not lawful, but they - somehow - got an exemption.

 

I agree with the points you make though, and modified 'Oyster' systems work elsewhere, although these are contactless 'tap on - tap off' rather than a dedicated card.

I know in Doncaster they're trialing something called tap & cap using debit/credit card. 

 

Supposedly you get on, tap your card and you're charged 2 quid for your first journey. If you make a return journey then you tap again and get charged another 2 quid. 

If you make a third journey in the same day then you're charged 70p to total the cost of the Doncaster day saver ticket. 

[Michael_N 36]

7 minutes ago, Resident said:

I know in Doncaster they're trialing something called tap & cap using debit/credit card. 

 

Supposedly you get on, tap your card and you're charged 2 quid for your first journey. If you make a return journey then you tap again and get charged another 2 quid. 

If you make a third journey in the same day then you're charged 70p to total the cost of the Doncaster day saver ticket. 

Something that has been done for years with National Express West Midlands. Brilliant idea as it works like Oyster and auto-caps the fare when using the same card.

 

About time they introduced it to Rotherham/Sheffield!

[Resident 1,193]

15 minutes ago, Michael_N said:

Something that has been done for years with National Express West Midlands. Brilliant idea as it works like Oyster and auto-caps the fare when using the same card.

 

About time they introduced it to Rotherham/Sheffield!

It's only in trial as far as I know. 

 

2 hours ago, RollingJ said:

I understand that, but there are some like me who don't use/have a smartphone. I have a feeling though that in South Yorkshire, they are just piggy-backing on the Travelmaster to save costs in a low-profit centre.

 

True, but as far as I know, they still accept cash in Doncaster. I can't remember where I read of the 'fudge' that allows TfL to refuse cash, but wherever it was also linked to the relevant law they were operating against.

Ive just researched this (quickly via Google so that's my disclaimer) 

 

According to an article I found there is no requirement for businesses to accept cash. 

 

"You might be surprised to learn that, at present, there’s no requirement for UK businesses to accept cash.

The oft-quoted ‘Legal Tender’ argument only gives you the right to settle debts in cash, not pay for products." 

 

Link

 

Given that travel is classed as a product and not a debt then, based on the above, there's no reason why cashless bus travel couldn't be a thing outside of 'that there London'