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Electric Cars, Anyone Got One?

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2 minutes ago, L00b said:

Before long (couple of decades maybe), private car ownership will revert to being a genuine luxury unaffordable to most, if nothing else as a result of policies aiming to improve mobility in ever more populated, and so congested, conurbations.

 

In that context, the problem of charging point safety in big estates might resolve itself, through lack of private cars in big estates in the first place.

Yes looks to me thats what will happen in fact its happened in london now and in sheff a lot of new build flats do not have car parking 

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23 hours ago, L00b said:

Before long (couple of decades maybe), private car ownership will revert to being a genuine luxury unaffordable to most, if nothing else as a result of policies aiming to improve mobility in ever more populated, and so congested, conurbations.

 

In that context, the problem of charging point safety in big estates might resolve itself, through lack of private cars in big estates in the first place.

I'd happily give up a car if there were decent public transport links.

but outside of London there just isn't the money being spent, and there's no indication that the decades of under-investment is going to be reversed in the coming years.

 

I mean look at Leeds, were they not on the news recently for being the largest city in Europe without a proper Rapid Transit system?

Edited by geared

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23 minutes ago, geared said:

I'd happily give up a car if there were decent public transport links.

but outside of London there just isn't the money being spent, and there's no indication that the decades of under-investment is going to be reversed in the coming years.

 

I mean look at Leeds, were they not on the news recently for being the largest city in Europe without a proper Rapid Transit system?

Lots of initiatives under way here, notwithstanding very decent public transport links, moreover 100% free in a few months' time (already now, actually, on an ad hoc basis).

 

Because all these links are still massively congested (about 175.000 commuters trying to get in, then out, every day in a city of 120.000 inhabitants).

 

I'd be happy enough to swap 1 car in the household for a 2-wheel full EV (250-400cc equiv.) and more public transport use (couldn't base commute on it 100%, due to frequent business engagements in hard-to-reach-fast places).

 

Used to do exactly that (commuted with a full EV moped, 50cc equiv.) in Dublin between 2005-2007, but tech wasn't quite there yet.

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May be they should develop -Ev 3 Wheelers?

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1 hour ago, geared said:

I'd happily give up a car if there were decent public transport links.

but outside of London there just isn't the money being spent, and there's no indication that the decades of under-investment is going to be reversed in the coming years.

 

I mean look at Leeds, were they not on the news recently for being the largest city in Europe without a proper Rapid Transit system?

I'd happily give up a car if there were decent public transport links.. 

I think thats partly up to you were you live . I moved to an area were it is 52 bus every 10 mins loads other buses asda 5 mins / aldi 5 mins brilliant M1 5 mins 

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1 hour ago, DeZeus said:

May be they should develop -Ev 3 Wheelers?

They've long existed already, as industrial small load carriers.

 

Believe it or not, full EV vehicles go back decades already (a good century +, if you factor the earliest and very obscure examples). I remember test-driving both a full EV Clio (mk1) and a full-EV 106 (mk1) in the mid-90s, each based on banks of lead acid batteries in the subframe.

 

The main problems are two-fold, each reinforcing the other in a negative way: insufficient (and market-fragmented) charging infrastructure, and difficulty to change acquired vehicle usage behaviour due to range differentials between ICE and EV (hundreds of miles with ICEs for one 10min stop at petrol station, versus 100 to 150 miles for 30+ minutes charging). The economics are less of a problem, because broadly they balance out (EV costs more, but requires less maintenance and electricity much cheaper than fuel).

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2 hours ago, L00b said:

 

 

Used to do exactly that (commuted with a full EV moped, 50cc equiv.) in Dublin between 2005-2007, but tech wasn't quite there yet.

Having just found out about these, I’m amazed they aren’t more mainstream.

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49 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Having just found out about these, I’m amazed they aren’t more mainstream.

They were, and most nowadays still are, pretty expensive (in some cases, outrageously so) relative to their ICE brethren.

 

A local manufacturer (yes, in tiny Luxembourg!), Ujet, does a really funky and practical 50cc equiv.model with a lot of really neat features. But with an €8k starting price, I really don't know where else they intend to (try to) flog them, bar perhaps the odd one or two to superyacht owners: it's €5k overpriced for the target audience, to become more mainstream.

 

A bit like EV cars, really: Tesla performance may well be supercar territory, but they're a long way from supercar build quality and finishing. I wouldn't put £80+k down for a P100D even if I had it, I've seen pauper-spec VWs that looked better put together.

 

The one I had in Dublin, opportunistically bought 2nd hand (wouldn't have bought it new, wanted to experience living with one first, and no long-term rental options around) was pretty agrarian, tech-wise. Basically, take your stock 50cc peugeot or vespa 90s-looking scooter, strip the ICE & innards, swap for a couple 12V lead acid car batteries coupled to an electric motor with a CVT transmission, leave the original brakes, add a few LED lights to the dash for the charge level, that was it. Range on paper: 60 miles. Real-life in summer: 40 miles. Middle of winter: 10 miles (I had to push it the last mile on a fair few occasions in late autumn & winter, despite a full overnight charge the night before: batteries deplete all day long when it's parked out in the open and not garaged). As for the performance: 0 to 20mph, superbike. Beyond was...problematic. 30mph - eventually, on the flat with a bit of following wind.

 

It just wasn't safe, both due to not keeping up with faster traffic (27-35mph band) and, primarily, due to being silent. There's a reason modern EV cars are fitted with a low-level horn. Trust me, I knew all about it 12+ years ago, with the square wheels to prove it. In the end, I went back to an Benelli 125cc maxi-scoot (ICE obviously).

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Progress is being made on the charging issue.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/31/lithium_fasat_charge/

 

10 minute charge time is decent enough to take it fully mainstream, people with no private parking might still get the hump they their unit rate is significantly more expensive than at-home slow charging though.

 

I guess the next questions are:

 

How do we plug the tax gap left from VED and Where's all the extra electricity going to come from?

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2 hours ago, L00b said:

They were, and most nowadays still are, pretty expensive (in some cases, outrageously so) relative to their ICE brethren.

 

A local manufacturer (yes, in tiny Luxembourg!), Ujet, does a really funky and practical 50cc equiv.model with a lot of really neat features. But with an €8k starting price, I really don't know where else they intend to (try to) flog them, bar perhaps the odd one or two to superyacht owners: it's €5k overpriced for the target audience, to become more mainstream.

 

A bit like EV cars, really: Tesla performance may well be supercar territory, but they're a long way from supercar build quality and finishing. I wouldn't put £80+k down for a P100D even if I had it, I've seen pauper-spec VWs that looked better put together.

 

The one I had in Dublin, opportunistically bought 2nd hand (wouldn't have bought it new, wanted to experience living with one first, and no long-term rental options around) was pretty agrarian, tech-wise. Basically, take your stock 50cc peugeot or vespa 90s-looking scooter, strip the ICE & innards, swap for a couple 12V lead acid car batteries coupled to an electric motor with a CVT transmission, leave the original brakes, add a few LED lights to the dash for the charge level, that was it. Range on paper: 60 miles. Real-life in summer: 40 miles. Middle of winter: 10 miles (I had to push it the last mile on a fair few occasions in late autumn & winter, despite a full overnight charge the night before: batteries deplete all day long when it's parked out in the open and not garaged). As for the performance: 0 to 20mph, superbike. Beyond was...problematic. 30mph - eventually, on the flat with a bit of following wind.

 

It just wasn't safe, both due to not keeping up with faster traffic (27-35mph band) and, primarily, due to being silent. There's a reason modern EV cars are fitted with a low-level horn. Trust me, I knew all about it 12+ years ago, with the square wheels to prove it. In the end, I went back to an Benelli 125cc maxi-scoot (ICE obviously).

Prices seemed to have dropped a bit since then, and I've no real world experience of them but it doesn't seem to have the same exposure as EVs with 4 wheels. 

 

 

https://urbanebikes.com/collections/electric-mopeds

 

And yes, I know the prices have the dreaded "from" next to them. :)

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I don't have an electric car, or e-moped, but I do have an e-bike.

 

(You still have to pedal, it just helps a bit. Over 16 mph you're on your own - no motor assistance)

 

It's faster than driving* on my commute, and it means we can get by perfectly fine with *only* 1 car, saving us £4000/year.

 

(*Sometimes I drive**,  sometimes I ride)

 

(**Driving if it means msWife and I can lift-share)

Edited by ads36

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On 29/10/2019 at 11:49, Obelix said:

Because science lets us make predicitons like that..

 

Electric technology is there. IT's just not in the car that you picked for whatever reason, or rather that you picked the wrong car for your application.

Technically speaking I did not pick the PHEV, the salesman sold it to me. Please read post 49  page 5 before replying to me.   156 to the gallon was the lie that sold it.

 

Angel1.

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