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Same Changing Room For Male/Female at Swimming Baths.

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1 hour ago, Pettytom said:

It really isn’t clear to me why you object to mixed changing  rooms. Could you explain again please 

I haven't stated I object to mixed changing rooms, but I do object to there not being changing rooms/areas available for only male and female swimmers.  It shouldn't really be difficult to understand. On the toilet thread I made a similar point that I have no objection to gender neutral toilets but don't support them replacing toilets just for males and females. 

 

 

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

Wow a 2 years old opinion piece from the guardian based upon an academic survey conducted in the USA. 

 

Concrete stuff that.

 

Human dignity is created when a nurse/doctor draws a curtain around the bed to perform a routine procedure which may cause embarrassment.  Human dignity is when a doctor or nurse removes someone from a ward to a treatment room or operating theatre to conduct a more invaisive procedure. 

 

One would assume that the rest of the time in a ward patients are dressed and covered up.    Where exactly is the "indignity" here??

 

 

Two years ago isn't long ago and the USA have similar traditional family moral values to our own country.

 

Your understanding of human dignity is different to mine.  The Government decided to phase out same sex wards because they don't provide the same human dignity for patients as single sex wards.

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5 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Why?  

 

Do you still think we are so backwards as a society that a man catching the sight of the woman in hospital gown laying in a hospital bed could not control themselves and would be filled with lust.   

 

Do you think there is some woman laying there recovering from surgery who faints from shock at the sight of a man's bare torso in the bed opposite.  

 

Grow up.   With the obvious exceptions for areas such as gynaecology or maternity I think it is pretty ridiculous to even suggest such a thing.   It's 2019 not 1950.

Because many women and men find it totally degrading, and if that's how they feel, their views should be respected.

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7 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

You're missing the main  point that some men and women are uncomfortable about sharing wards with the opposite sex.  Mixed wards are there to make  life easier for the hospital rather than the patients. 

 

Regarding the original topic the women who prefer women only swimming or gym sessions are not likely to support mixed sex changing areas.  More thought should be given to the people who are uncomfortable with mixed changing areas. It's a backward step to do away with issues of common decency and respect for the opposite sex.

I would be very interested in your reason for believing this to be the case.

6 hours ago, Agent Orange said:

And so it should.  Imagine not being able to be admitted into hospital because the only bed available is on a ward reserved for the opposite sex.  That would be madness.

 

If someone is uncomfortable with a mixed sex changing area then surely they would simply look for a pool that has segregated changing facilities.  Plenty of them still exist so it's not like they are being denied that choice.

This happens on a regular basis.

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It's a bed in a room while someone receives medical care.  One may argue very little dignity nor comfort for anyone in the middle of a hospital but unfortunately that's the nature of having treatment in a public place at public expense.

 

This is supposed to be a universal free at source healthcare system for everyone.  Yes there are certain areas where privacy should be maintained but we are talking about hospital wards here.  It is not expected that people are generally walking around nude or doing intimate things in the middle of hospital ward for all to see.

 

With the exception of those privileged people who have private health care and private rooms there is unfortunately very little that can be done.

 

It's more than obvious that the NHS has a funding crisis and has extremely limited resources.  To start incurring the the time and expense of segregating out groups of patients just because some people feel a little bit it degraded will cripple the system even more. 

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All hospital wards are essentially mixed sex wards but have different bays for male and female unless it is an acute/ critical care area where males and females are together in the same space for obvious reasons.

2 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

Because many women and men find it totally degrading, and if that's how they feel, their views should be respected.

From my own experience very few people would, when asked, care that they were in a mixed sex environment.

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2 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

I haven't stated I object to mixed changing rooms, but I do object to there not being changing rooms/areas available for only male and female swimmers.  It shouldn't really be difficult to understand. On the toilet thread I made a similar point that I have no objection to gender neutral toilets but don't support them replacing toilets just for males and females.

Why do you object? I don't understand what the problem is?

 

There are universal changing cubicles for all. Nobody is seeing anything.  You do it behind a closed door and come back out into the main communal area.

 

It's exactly the same with gender neutral toilets.  I have been in a few of them as they are starting to be installed in several office buildings particularly in London.  Generally they are a room filled with lots of individual cubicles (often now floor to ceiling height with a sealed door) and then have a communal area for handwashing or sometimes even individual hand washing stations in the cubicles.

 

You go in, you do your thing and you leave.  Nobody any the wiser whether your next door neighbour is a man woman or beast.

 

We are all human beings sharing a space. Why do people find it so difficult to adjust.  I thought really we've moved on and evolved from all this.

 

Is fascinating how people heavily criticise the middle East countries for their ruthless segregation and degrading treatment particularly of women and homosexuals.  The terrible segregation cafes and restaurants.  The segregation and a off in public baths.  Their Draconian dress codes when out in public and then you end up reading a thread like this!! 

Edited by ECCOnoob

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1 minute ago, ECCOnoob said:

 

 

  It is not expected that people are generally walking around nude or doing intimate things in the middle of hospital ward for all to see.

 

 

Generally speaking no but over the years I have visited older family members in hospital and on one occasion saw a man walking about with no clothes on and on another occasion  a family member exposing himself by not pulling his pyjamas up properly.  Neither  of them would ever had done this normally, both were there because they had had a stroke. I never told the family member what he had done because he would have been upset that he had done such a thing.

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17 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Why do you object? I don't understand what the problem is?

 

There are universal changing cubicles for all. Nobody is seeing anything.  You do it behind a closed door and come back out into the main communal area.

 

It's exactly the same with gender neutral toilets.  I have been in a few of them as they are starting to be installed in several office buildings particularly in London.  Generally they are a room filled with lots of individual cubicles (often now floor to ceiling height with a sealed door) and then have a communal area for handwashing or sometimes even individual hand washing stations in the cubicles.

 

You go in, you do your thing and you leave.  Nobody any the wiser whether your next door neighbour is a man woman or beast.

 

We are all human beings sharing a space. Why do people find it so difficult to adjust.  I thought really we've moved on and evolved from all this.

 

Is fascinating how people heavily criticise the middle East countries for their ruthless segregation and degrading treatment particularly of women and homosexuals.  The terrible segregation cafes and restaurants.  The segregation and a off in public baths.  Their Draconian dress codes when out in public and then you end up reading a thread like this!! 

It says more about yourself  than me that you don't  understand what the problem is and why you have to ask why people object to being forced to share mixed sexed facilities.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Sidonica said:

Generally speaking no but over the years I have visited older family members in hospital and on one occasion saw a man walking about with no clothes on and on another occasion  a family member exposing himself by not pulling his pyjamas up properly.  Neither  of them would ever had done this normally, both were there because they had had a stroke. I never told the family member what he had done because he would have been upset that he had done such a thing.

 You have made an excellent point. Nobody is at their best when in hospital and the older generation are more likely to be more adversely affected by being placed in a mixed sex ward than the younger generation. 

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8 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

It says more about yourself  than me that you don't  understand what the problem is and why you have to ask why people object to being forced to share mixed sexed facilities.

 

It's not.   It's a bog in a room.  You know just like you have in a house.  Just like you have in smaller cafes or libraries or trains or airplanes or small offices or any disabled toilet up and down this land.

 

The same applies for changing rooms.  Lots of small fashion shops have changing cubicles for universal use.  Lots of sports centres have universal changing areas with private cubicles.   

 

There isn't a problem to understand.  

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7 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

It's not.   It's a bog in a room.  You know just like you have in a house.  Just like you have in smaller cafes or libraries or trains or airplanes or small offices or any disabled toilet up and down this land.

 

The same applies for changing rooms.  Lots of small fashion shops have changing cubicles for universal use.  Lots of sports centres have universal changing areas with private cubicles.   

 

There isn't a problem to understand.  

You're not comparing like for like.  It's ludicrous to compare private toilet facilities in your own home to public facilities. 

 

Swimming baths and hospitals are not the same as small businesses which provide facilities to oblige customers.  At one time not too long ago, it would have been unthinkable for Swimming baths and hospitals to have mixed sexed changing areas and mixed sexed wards, and it's ridiculous and a sad reflection of how moral values have deteriorated in such a short period of time we are even having this discussion.

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5 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

You're not comparing like for like.  It's ludicrous to compare private toilet facilities in your own home to public facilities. 

 

Swimming baths and hospitals are not the same as small businesses which provide facilities to oblige customers.  At one time not too long ago, it would have been unthinkable for Swimming baths and hospitals to have mixed sexed changing areas and mixed sexed wards, and it's ridiculous and a sad reflection of how moral values have deteriorated in such a short period of time we are even having this discussion.

Why are mixed gender changing facilities, evidence of the decline of moral values?

 

That’s one of you more ridiculous claims.

 

Why on earth should we spend money segregating people for no benefit at all?

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1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

You're not comparing like for like.  It's ludicrous to compare private toilet facilities in your own home to public facilities. 

 

Swimming baths and hospitals are not the same as small businesses which provide facilities to oblige customers.  At one time not too long ago, it would have been unthinkable for Swimming baths and hospitals to have mixed sexed changing areas and mixed sexed wards, and it's ridiculous and a sad reflection of how moral values have deteriorated in such a short period of time we are even having this discussion.

Jesus Christ that sentence explains so much.

 

Get thee back to 1950.   

 

Those delicate pretty little women things must be protected at all times dare they see the flash of a man's belly or hairy legs.       Men should be allowed to be men in a man's only environment free to have with their tackle hanging out whenever they feel like it. 

 

God forbid they have to share a space together - what has the world come to.  

 

Just out of curiosity oh prudish one, explain what on earth would you do with a transgender or non-binary person in your world.   Where exactly are they supposed to go to get changed or use the toilet.  

Edited by ECCOnoob

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