Court Ruling Goes Against Johnson

[andyofborg 11]

7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It's still very much a thing (in and of itself) though, and it is very much being subverted.

 

but isn't the real subversion being done by the executive, in that they have continually and deliberatly avoided any sort of process by which the will of all the people in regard to the future relationship with the EU could be gauged. 

 

by not doing this, it has only left a struggle between the wills of the people on the extreme edges of the arguments

[nightrider 13]

2 hours ago, alchresearch said:

What I don't understand is that it's conference season, so wouldn't MPs be away at the conferences that are going on at this time?

Prorogation also stops a lot of important behind the scenes stuff too, not just MP's sitting. So its not the same at all.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

13 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Okay. I would say, 'wrong doing' is action that is contrary to an individual's personal ethics or sense of right and wrong. It has nothing to do with our legal system or lawyers etc.

Dude, you are all over the place on this. Earlier you said

 

Quote

For this, they are not being held accountable by any court I'm aware of.

Your contradictory position on today’s court ruling has also been pointed out by others.

 

This is absolutely typical of the confused thinking of many Leave supporters. You remind me of the Leave supporter in Andrew Bridgen’s constituency interviewed on the BBC ‘Tories at War’ programme the other night.

 

Interviewer. “What do you think we should do?

 

Leave supporter. Well , I don’t really know anything about it but I think we should leave!”

[L00b 441]

28 minutes ago, Waldo said:

 

It's still very much a thing (in and of itself) though, and it is very much being subverted.

 

I don't like or dislike it, it is what it is. I hardly have the time and resources to go about changing these kind of things.

I don't disagree that the majority opinion in the 2016 referendum introduced a moral quandary, doubling as a political quandary, for MPs. But never a legal quandary, nor a moral duty to enact. It is only if you misunderstand how British democracy works (and has worked for hundreds of years indeed), that you would hold MPs to be obligated to implement the Leave result. The earlier Miller judgement, and today's, simply reaffirm how British democracy works.

 

I would argue (again, but it's a long time since the last time), that the referendum result was as much of a call to thoroughly, objectively and carefully consider, and then rectify through relevant policies, the severe socio-economic problems across the length and breadth of the UK (what pushed a non-trivial portion -if not a majority- of the 17m, to favour Leaving as a protest vote), as a call for the UK to actually rescind its EU membership.

 

Acknowledging these problems and enacting those mitigating policies is as valid an approach to the referendum result, as Brexiting (any version of which will only exacerbate the problems further) and, I would also argue, a far more responsible and beneficial one.

Edited September 24, 2019 by L00b

[Top Cats Hat 10]

9 minutes ago, Waldo said:

.I'm ****** that some MP's (looking at you Lib Dems) are set on overturning the referendum result.

No one can overturn the referendum result unless they have a time machine. It is now a matter of historical record.

 

What the Lib Dems have said is that they will revoke a decision made by a previous government if they are elected into power. I struggle to understand how you can possibly object to that in a free and democratic society.

[Waldo 96]

1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Dude, you are all over the place on this. Earlier you said

 

Your contradictory position on today’s court ruling has also been pointed out by others.

 

This is absolutely typical of the confused thinking of many Leave supporters. You remind me of the Leave supporter in Andrew Bridgen’s constituency interviewed on the BBC ‘Tories at War’ programme the other night.

 

Interviewer. “What do you think we should do?

 

Leave supporter. Well , I don’t really know anything about it but I think we should leave!”

I'm sorry you're not understanding me Top Cats Hat.

 

I personally don't feel I have a contractictory position on todays ruling, at all.

 

Please feel free to continue misrepresenting me as a Brexiteer.

[andyofborg 11]

9 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I'm ****** that some MP's (looking at you Lib Dems) are set on overturning the referendum result. While it seems there is no legal basis for my grievence; it still feels very wrong to me, and does not match up well with what my (albeit uneducated in such matters) mind considers Democracy means.

they are quite open about this policy (and it's not one i particularly agree with) and it can only be enacted if they are in a position to form a majority government, which means an awful lot of people will have to vote for them. 

 

democracy must include the right to change your mind, if it didn't then the 2016 referendum wouldn't have happened. 

 

[Top Cats Hat 10]

1 minute ago, Waldo said:

Please feel free to continue misrepresenting me as a Brexiteer.

You self-define yourself as a Brexiteer by supporting the UK leaving the EU. 

 

No misrepresentation on my part.

[Waldo 96]

8 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

You self-define yourself as a Brexiteer by supporting the UK leaving the EU. 

 

No misrepresentation on my part.

I think you need more granularity though, it's not a simple affair.

 

For example, a person (a) can think leaving the EU is a very bad idea; but that we should follow the expressed will of the people (result of the referendum).

 

Such an individual is very different to someone (b) who thinks leaving the EU is a good idea.

 

I would not consider the former (a) to be a Brexiteer. The later (b) I would very much consider a Brexiteer.

 

Also, if someone is a Brexiteer; I would not lump them together with all other Brexiteers and label them all thick en' mass, or think they have no legitimate points etc. I would hope to listen to and consider the merit of each point on it's indivudual merit.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Waldo

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 minutes ago, Waldo said:

For example, a person (a) can think leaving the EU is a very bad idea; but that we should follow the expressed will of the people (result of the referendum)..

The 2016 obliged nobody to do anything.

 

Thinking that leaving that the UK should leave the EU is a bad idea but should still  be pursued because of an out of date, largely discredited referendum which does not reflect the wishes of UK citizens in late 2019, is exactly the kind of confused thinking I am talking about.

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 hours ago, makapaka said:

He should resign - but he probably won’t.

He's going to double down. If caught lying, keep lying, them blame everyone else, preferably foreigners.

 

He won't take any responsibility.

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, Waldo said:

 

It's a throwaway BS statement that lumps all Brexiteers together, and suggests they have no possible valid or legitimate points.

 

No, no, no you can't have that one I'm afraid. You brexitèers are always lumping 17.4m as a solid immovable mass that spoke as one. Now the fruitcakes are really coming youre going to have to stick together and own it.