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Thomas Cook In Financial Trouble

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2 minutes ago, L00b said:

How many red buses is that, then?

 

:twisted::D

The NHS informally use "bus weeks" as a measure of costs of a project at the moment. My day rate for them is 1/490232 bus weeks.... :) Bojo was going to come to Leeds as well and visit the gaff but I think he was adivsed it might not be a good idea...

 

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2 hours ago, Obelix said:

It's not the fault of the people booking flights only. IF Thomas Cook are losing money on flights only then they shouldnt be selling them..

The reason they failed was they havea  huge network of shops that no one really uses to the extent they can be justified. Holiday brochures? Whats that about - the world went online twenty years ago....

BUT the folks now stranded should pay there own way back - they wanted a cheap flight only and thats what they got. If they'd paid the going ATOL package rate they probably wouldn't be this mess. Neither would the tax payer - who would have thought our hard earned taxes to pay for someone elses holiday.

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2 hours ago, Obelix said:

It's not the fault of the people booking flights only. IF Thomas Cook are losing money on flights only then they shouldnt be selling them..

The reason they failed was they havea  huge network of shops that no one really uses to the extent they can be justified. Holiday brochures? Whats that about - the world went online twenty years ago....

Correct and huge debt to service too.

The operators who will survive in this cut throat industry are the ones that are lean and use the internet successfully.I have not looked at a holiday brochure or been in a travel agent for 10 years.The likes of Booking.com and sky scanner are always cheaper even than booking with the web sites of the major operators in my experience let alone booking in a travel agent.

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54 minutes ago, Obelix said:

Atol is covered by the CAA which is funded from public money. The "atol" funds at the moment are about £170m. It'll cost about £600m to get everyone back. Taxpayer picks up the rest...

That covers all customers abroad though, I think it's only 150,000 British people.  They have a big presence in Germany for example with many customers there.

 

Does the British tax payer pay to repatriate everyeone to every home country?

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Just now, willman said:

BUT the folks now stranded should pay there own way back - they wanted a cheap flight only and thats what they got. If they'd paid the going ATOL package rate they probably wouldn't be this mess. Neither would the tax payer - who would have thought our hard earned taxes to pay for someone elses holiday.

Actually thats not correct, far from it.  Obelix was correct. Why do you say something without understanding the facts? The flights aren't that much cheaper than the package deals for most of the year. In addition to that, there is a levy of £2.50 for the ATOL insurance taken from each booking. Flight only with TC was ATOL protected until a couple of years ago and still is with Balkan. I have been flying twice a year with these two airlines for the last fifteen years. The price difference between them is swings and roundabouts depending when you book. TC certainly aren't "cheap", they are the same and sometimes more expensive than other airlines. We  sometimes went with them because we preferred the flight times even though that sometimes meant travelling from Manchester (an hour and a half away) and going up the night before rather than the flight times from Doncaster which we can travel to in about half an hour or less from our house.

 

Why would someone book a package if they own a property abroad? 

 

Its nothing to do with offering flight only that has been their downfall. Its bad management of the business in lots of areas, one Obelix has touched on;  the increased number of high street shops they have had over the last decade while others are decreasing theirs. 

 

We booked our flight direct wit TC using our credit card so we will get our money back from the CC company. The insurance would cover it if we were already there. 

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28 minutes ago, willman said:

BUT the folks now stranded should pay there own way back - they wanted a cheap flight only and thats what they got. If they'd paid the going ATOL package rate they probably wouldn't be this mess. Neither would the tax payer - who would have thought our hard earned taxes to pay for someone elses holiday.

Well it's not paying for their holiday is it if it's only the flights that are covered.

I fail to understand what your problem is with this unless you are having a go at what you think are  money grubbing people that didn't buy a package because it's not what they wanted.

16 minutes ago, geared said:

That covers all customers abroad though, I think it's only 150,000 British people.  They have a big presence in Germany for example with many customers there.

 

Does the British tax payer pay to repatriate everyeone to every home country?

ATOL as far as I know only applies if the originating flight is in the UK or dependancies like Mann, the Channel Isles or Gibraltar.

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14 minutes ago, Chez2 said:

Actually thats not correct, far from it.  Obelix was correct. Why do you say something without understanding the facts? The flights aren't that much cheaper than the package deals for most of the year. In addition to that, there is a levy of £2.50 for the ATOL insurance taken from each booking. Flight only with TC was ATOL protected until a couple of years ago and still is with Balkan. I have been flying twice a year with these two airlines for the last fifteen years. The price difference between them is swings and roundabouts depending when you book. TC certainly aren't "cheap", they are the same and sometimes more expensive than other airlines. We  sometimes went with them because we preferred the flight times even though that sometimes meant travelling from Manchester (an hour and a half away) and going up the night before rather than the flight times from Doncaster which we can travel to in about half an hour or less from our house.

 

Why would someone book a package if they own a property abroad? 

 

Its nothing to do with offering flight only that has been their downfall. Its bad management of the business in lots of areas, one Obelix has touched on;  the increased number of high street shops they have had over the last decade while others are decreasing theirs. 

 

We booked our flight direct wit TC using our credit card so we will get our money back from the CC company. The insurance would cover it if we were already there. 

I understand youre point and agree with you,you're obviously a seasoned and experienced traveller. Thousands of people aren't and do just look for a cheap flight only deal, or no insurance. IIRC at one time you had to have insurance witht the opertator then that was stopped so now people don't bother.

I wasn't claiming that flight only was the reaon for their downfall but the debacle that some travellers now find themselves in.

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Obelix I don't think willman understands ATOL is an insurance scheme and as with all insurance a fee has to be paid to secure that insurance. It has nothing to do with buying a package deal per se. 

 

https://www.comparethemarket.com/travel-insurance/content/atol-protection/

 

I don't know if TC chose not to have ATOL for flight only more recently or if they were not allowed to have it as they had been in financial trouble before. Balkan flight only are ATOL protected. 

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3 minutes ago, Obelix said:

Well it's not paying for their holiday is it if it's only the flights that are covered.

I fail to understand what your problem is with this unless you are having a go at what you think are  money grubbing people that didn't buy a package because it's not what they wanted.

ATOL as far as I know only applies if the originating flight is in the UK or dependancies like Mann, the Channel Isles or Gibraltar.

You're terminology not mine - i have no issue with people getting a deal. I had a package via Expedia when Monarch went tits up Expedia didn't cover full reimbursement although i got my flights reimbursed but lost the cost of the hotel in Rome i'd booked.If i'd gone on the holiday the insurance would have covered everything.

 

If people wanted to get a cheaper flight and didn't everything else correctly after considering the pitfalls why are they being bailed out.

 

 

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I know what you mean willman. Some people just don't think ahead. I couldn't get over the lady who didn't take extra heart medication with her. I only have hayfever and take extra tablets should the flight be delayed or I drop a tablet on the floor or down the sink and need a spare. 

 

For a long time you have been allowed just to tick you have insurance without any check to see if you have it. Some of the insurance is hardly worth it with the clauses such as not covered on excursions. I could understand if the excursions were dangerous but not just trips out.  

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1 minute ago, willman said:

You're terminology not mine - i have no issue with people getting a deal. I had a package via Expedia when Monarch went tits up Expedia didn't cover full reimbursement although i got my flights reimbursed but lost the cost of the hotel in Rome i'd booked.If i'd gone on the holiday the insurance would have covered everything.

 

If people wanted to get a cheaper flight and didn't everything else correctly after considering the pitfalls why are they being bailed out.

 

 

They are not being bailed out. Whilst those words are mine above it is exactly how you are coming across.

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4 minutes ago, Chez2 said:

Obelix I don't think willman understands ATOL is an insurance scheme and as with all insurance a fee has to be paid to secure that insurance. It has nothing to do with buying a package deal per se. 

 

https://www.comparethemarket.com/travel-insurance/content/atol-protection/

 

I don't know if TC chose not to have ATOL for flight only more recently or if they were not allowed to have it as they had been in financial trouble before. Balkan flight only are ATOL protected. 

I understand in principle but the point made on BBC this morning was those booking package deals with TC had ATOL protection included,those with flights only didn't however they had booked the flights.

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