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Would Free Public Transport Be Feasible- And Effective In Reducing Car Usage?

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21 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Of course not.😀

 

Sorry I must have misinterpreted your post - I thought you were suggesting going back to pre-industrial times  .

Far from it - the pits are long gone for starters. But in many cases industrial estates have gone up in their place. Maybe you get a tax break or something if you work within say a mile of your place of employment - that’s, what, a 20 min walk? 

 

There are all sorts of businesses near me, I’ve no idea how many locals work there. Half? Less? 

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OK,  I get you now.

 

That would be no good for me (if I was still working).  I spent all my working life at either the Atlas site (i.e. Firth Brown - now long gone) or River Don.

Apart from about three years when I was living on Park Hill and working at Atlas, I have been two bus rides (or one and a long walk) away.

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11 hours ago, L00b said:

I'll tell you this time next year, as that is exactly why Luxembourg is making public transport (all of it: buses, tram, trains) permanently FoC from March 2020.

 

They're step-trialling it in advance, and made it fully FoC this whole week, as kids went back to school (start summer hols later, so they go back later, relative to many other countries).

 

Beside a fairly bad snarl last Tuesday evening, the empirical evidence is that it seems to work: roads have been surprisingly fluid morning and night. Not middle-of-summer fluid, for sure. But not first-week-back-to-school snarled, nor even average weekday-in-the-year congested.

 

Which is surprising, because as petrolheads go, Luxemburgers are way up there, I've long thought the government would need industrial-grade tin openers to prise them from their cars.

 

Of course, it's a lot easier to do, when the country is the size of Dorset, and can relatively easily afford it.

 

We use it all the time at weekends. Electric-hybrid buses run like swiss clocks every 15 mins and are cleaner than German hospitals. €2 for a 12 mile trip (incl. return if within 2 hours), multimodal (bus and/or train and/or tram). You can't run an park a car cheaper for that trip. Taxi for the same trip would be >€40 (big debate about taxi rates here, unsurprisingly...I mean, when they can afford to buy or lease and run Teslas P100 as taxis, you just know they're onto a better-than-good rate).

Is that the same Luxembourg that has received 1,827 billion euros from their beloved EU.  No doubt if we received around 20,000 billion pounds pro rata from the EU we could probably do the same, but that aint going to happen, is it.  Pie in the sky springs to mind.

 

Angel1.

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2 hours ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Is that the same Luxembourg that has received 1,827 billion euros from their beloved EU.  No doubt if we received around 20,000 billion pounds pro rata from the EU we could probably do the same, but that aint going to happen, is it.  Pie in the sky springs to mind.

 

Angel1.

We could do the same.

 

We could use some of those buses with lies written on them. Put them to  proper use.

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1 minute ago, Pettytom said:

We could do the same.

 

We could use some of those buses with lies written on them. Put them to  proper use.

Very well said!

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15 hours ago, L00b said:

I'll tell you this time next year, as that is exactly why Luxembourg is making public transport (all of it: buses, tram, trains) permanently FoC from March 2020.

 

They're step-trialling it in advance, and made it fully FoC this whole week, as kids went back to school (start summer hols later, so they go back later, relative to many other countries).

 

Beside a fairly bad snarl last Tuesday evening, the empirical evidence is that it seems to work: roads have been surprisingly fluid morning and night. Not middle-of-summer fluid, for sure. But not first-week-back-to-school snarled, nor even average weekday-in-the-year congested.

 

Which is surprising, because as petrolheads go, Luxemburgers are way up there, I've long thought the government would need industrial-grade tin openers to prise them from their cars.

 

Of course, it's a lot easier to do, when the country is the size of Dorset, and can relatively easily afford it.

 

We use it all the time at weekends. Electric-hybrid buses run like swiss clocks every 15 mins and are cleaner than German hospitals. €2 for a 12 mile trip (incl. return if within 2 hours), multimodal (bus and/or train and/or tram). You can't run an park a car cheaper for that trip. Taxi for the same trip would be >€40 (big debate about taxi rates here, unsurprisingly...I mean, when they can afford to buy or lease and run Teslas P100 as taxis, you just know they're onto a better-than-good rate).

Nice to know those buses are cleaner than German hospitals.I sincerely hope they are whole lot cleaner than German cars, especially diesel.lol

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My bike is cheaper and more reliable than public transport.

I always look for the alternative to driving if I'm going out (not least so I can have a drink 😃)

Unfortunately, I have to drive for work, so there's no getting away from the car yet...

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21 hours ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Is that the same Luxembourg that has received 1,827 billion euros from their beloved EU.  No doubt if we received around 20,000 billion pounds pro rata from the EU we could probably do the same, but that aint going to happen, is it.  Pie in the sky springs to mind.

 

Angel1.

So the population of Lux and the UK are in the ratio of 1.8:20000?

Theres Brexit maths for you. No wonder you thought 350 million a week was true. You are either incompetent at maths, or lying. Which is it?

 

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53 minutes ago, Obelix said:

So the population of Lux and the UK are in the ratio of 1.8:20000?

Theres Brexit maths for you. No wonder you thought 350 million a week was true. You are either incompetent at maths, or lying. Which is it?

 

The actual LUX/UK ratio is 1:10.8 (218 census) so the UK cash figure should be ~20,167b Euros.

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4 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

The actual LUX/UK ratio is 1:10.8 (218 census) so the UK cash figure should be ~20,167b Euros.

No more than 15 seconds on Google gives the figure for Lux as 1.8 billion not 1.8 trillion....

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries/luxembourg_en

 

Check facts first Angel. Or be called out for telling porkies.

Population of Lux is actually about a half million. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=population+of+luxemburg

The UK is about 60 odd million. The ratio is 1:120 not 1:10.8

 

 

Edited by Obelix

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Dunkirk in France started a free bus service last September:  https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-france-dunkirk-free-transportation-bus-success-climate-cities  Results are encouraging so they say. Whilst we must do something about air pollution, C02, plastic etc, I'm not convinced electric cars are the answer. They take up too much space in a traditional car format and will simply keep our roads permanently congested with diesel powered HGVs and the like continuing to pollute our air.

 

The future is probably a combination of personal electric vehicles (chariots er mobility scooters, ebikes, skateboads or the like) combined into a high speed backbone system capable of integrating into any existing congested space. A variant of NASA's skyTran would seem to be the obvious choice: https://www.skytran.com/ . If this system was run as a free public service with a personal vehicle integration system to offer true end to end capability over a 150mph backbone, then it could conceivably work rather well.

 

Of course we are a very long way from anything as joined up as this!

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9 minutes ago, Obelix said:

No more than 15 seconds on Google gives the figure for Lux as 1.8 billion not 1.8 trillion....

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/countries/member-countries/luxembourg_en

 

Check facts first Angel. Or be called out for telling porkies.

Population of Lux is actually about a half million. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=population+of+luxemburg

The UK is about 60 odd million. The ratio is 1:120 not 1:10.8

 

 

In that case, then, we should have received ~224b Euros - excuse my rapid erroneous calculation.

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