Would Free Public Transport Be Feasible- And Effective In Reducing Car Usage?

[Ontarian1981 10]

5 minutes ago, lil-minx92 said:

Its not too bad unless youre  a young newly qualified driver or have made recent claims. I pay about £280 a year. How does that compare with Canada?

Apart from things like you describe rates vary a lot from location to location.Toronto has some of the highest rates in the country

because of the volume of car ownership and claims per capita.

I haven't had a car for 5 years due to vision problems but they were way higher than what you just mentioned evenback when I was driving, and I had an exemplary driving record.

I have been seriously hurt in two accidents but neither one was my fault and never affected my rates.

My last insurance was about $1200 and that was fully comp for a one year old car, but that was almost 6 years back

 

 

[stifflersmom 11]

29 minutes ago, lil-minx92 said:

Its not too bad unless youre  a young newly qualified driver or have made recent claims. I pay about £280 a year. How does that compare with Canada?

You're well below average on insurance cost ( assuming you're fully comprehensive) ...£470  is the average for fully comprehensive cover in the UK. Also your fuel costs are low...£25  a week. Public transport would have to be super efficient and competitive to tip the balance against your outgoings but other motorists would have a different balance. £70  a month on fuel is the average figure. Excluding the cost of the car, the average figure per month is £160  to run a car.  I can see a future model of car sharing, public transport, private hire and scooters/ bikes being a sustainable alternative to vehicle ownership.

[DavidFrance 19]

5 hours ago, RollingJ said:

Hate to burst the bubble - but there is no way to have 'free' public transport - the vehicles cost money to purchase, run and maintain, the drivers/engineers need paying -- need I go on?

 

Or is everyone going to be stung by a (say) 20% increase in council tax to pay for it?

What's a 20% hike in council tax compared with the annual running cost of a car? Even an old banger will cost hundreds in insurance and tax, will depreciate by 20% per annum and will take money from your wallet for petrol, tyres and servicing.  Moreover the whole family benefits from free public transport, not just the car drivers. 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by DavidFrance
finger mistake on cash sum

[RollingJ 1,976]

Just now, DavidFrance said:

What's a 20% hike in council tax compared with the annual running cost of a car? Even an old banger will cost hundreds in insurance and tax, will depreciate by 120% per annum and will take money from your wallet for petrol, tyres and servicing.  Moreover the whole family benefits from free public transport, not just the car drivers. 

 

I don't know - or care - as I don't drive - but that doesn't answer the other, rather more important question in that quote, which you have conveniently ignored.

[francypants 441]

16 minutes ago, stifflersmom said:

You're well below average on insurance cost ( assuming you're fully comprehensive) ...£470  is the average for fully comprehensive cover in the UK. Also your fuel costs are low...£25  a week. Public transport would have to be super efficient and competitive to tip the balance against your outgoings but other motorists would have a different balance. £70  a month on fuel is the average figure. Excluding the cost of the car, the average figure per month is £160  to run a car.  I can see a future model of car sharing, public transport, private hire and scooters/ bikes being a sustainable alternative to vehicle ownership.

Our car insurance is  £230.72 per year. That's for my husband and myself fully comp with protected no claims.  ( Direct Line )

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by francypants

[DavidFrance 19]

4 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

I don't know - or care - as I don't drive - but that doesn't answer the other, rather more important question in that quote, which you have conveniently ignored.

Don't be silly. It is obvious that public transport systems require staffing and maintenance but that money wold be raised by the extra levy on council tax....i.e. the 20% "hike" you yourself refer to.   The history of SYPT's free bus services for shoppers and pensioners showed fully that when people have the opportunity they use it. SYPTE were made to stop free buses by a certain Iron Lady, the same one who wrecked the steel industry and much more besides. Now "pensioners" have to be almost in their grave before they get a bus pass and we all know that a future Tory government would axe them altogether. Fortunately, technology is now allowing ticketing options which mean several new options can be explored, like the Oyster card in London, but with a much more flexible pricing system so that card holders of certain classifications would pay differential, mean-average, low fares as they are already doing in Holland, for example.   Not free all the time but with time-sectors built in for off peak travel. 

[tinfoilhat 11]

Are we thinking too small? Should we try and negate the need for umpteen bus journies and try and work closer to home?

 

Go back 100 years and I suspect most of the inhabitants of my village worked in the village because it was a pit village. Now it’s a commuter outpost where everyone jumps in car (maybe a tram) and goes god knows where every morning.

[RollingJ 1,976]

9 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Are we thinking too small? Should we try and negate the need for umpteen bus journies and try and work closer to home?

 

Go back 100 years and I suspect most of the inhabitants of my village worked in the village because it was a pit village. Now it’s a commuter outpost where everyone jumps in car (maybe a tram) and goes god knows where every morning.

You are joking of course?

That idea, attractive as it may sound to the greenies, would require the whole worlds economy to be remodelled, and I can seriously see that happening - NOT!

[RollingJ 1,976]

25 minutes ago, DavidFrance said:

Don't be silly. It is obvious that public transport systems require staffing and maintenance but that money wold be raised by the extra levy on council tax....i.e. the 20% "hike" you yourself refer to.   The history of SYPT's free bus services for shoppers and pensioners showed fully that when people have the opportunity they use it. SYPTE were made to stop free buses by a certain Iron Lady, the same one who wrecked the steel industry and much more besides. Now "pensioners" have to be almost in their grave before they get a bus pass and we all know that a future Tory government would axe them altogether. Fortunately, technology is now allowing ticketing options which mean several new options can be explored, like the Oyster card in London, but with a much more flexible pricing system so that card holders of certain classifications would pay differential, mean-average, low fares as they are already doing in Holland, for example.   Not free all the time but with time-sectors built in for off peak travel. 

Don't offer insults, either.

If I recall correctly, when the bus services were privatised, we didn't see a reduction in CT (or whatever it was then), so your friendly PTE must have built up a large surplus - maybe they could use some of that to get the ball rolling.

[vwkittie 10]

I don't think you'll ever get rid of private vehicles entirely - what about people who don't live near any public transport routes, are disabled or need to travel outside of normal hours? Also for many people their daily routine simply doesn't have enough time to use purely public transport, e.g. you need to get children to school then get to work, he kids can't be dropped off too early but then you have to be at work at a certain time.

 

Even if public transport was free, I personally wouldn't walk miles to the nearest bus loaded with luggage, kids, dog etc to then have to get a tram (you can't even take your dog on a tram here, which is stupid) to then have to get a train to go away for the weekend - to then be stuck with nowhere to leave anything safely and no means of getting out and about to places that aren't covered by public transport.

 

I do think improvements to public transport in terms of coverage and costs would help, as would more flexible working (in terms of location and times). 

 

Perhaps the need to use a private vehicle could be covered by some sort of shared ownership fleet, so you only have it to use when you really need it.

[tinfoilhat 11]

26 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

You are joking of course?

That idea, attractive as it may sound to the greenies, would require the whole worlds economy to be remodelled, and I can seriously see that happening - NOT!

So getting everyone on public transport will solve our problems then?

[RollingJ 1,976]

4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

So getting everyone on public transport will solve our problems then?

Of course not.😀

 

Sorry I must have misinterpreted your post - I thought you were suggesting going back to pre-industrial times  .