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Consequences Of Brexit [Part 8] Read First Post Before Posting

Vaati

Mod Note: As we are getting rather tired of seeing reports about this. The use of the word Remoaners  is to cease. Either posts like adults, or don't post at all. The mod warnings have been clear.

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mort

In addition to remoaner we are also not going to allow the use of libdums or liebore - if you cannot behave like adults and post without recourse to these childish insults then please refrain from posting. If you have a problem with this then you all know where the helpdesk is. 

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12 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

It seems that the only decent Labour MPs such as John Mann and Kate Hoey who respect democracy 

John Mann is no longer a Labour MP and has been given a peerage by Theresa May. Kate Hoey is a fox-hunting Ulster Loyalist who on virtually everything, is closer to Johnson than Corbyn.

 

You still seem to have real problems with the concept of political opposition. If you think that something is wrong you don’t magically believe that it’s right just because others support it. If you think all MPs are obliged to support Brexit because of the 2016 then you must also believe that Jeremy Corbyn should support every Conservative policy since the 2017 election. Do you think that the concept of ‘Leader of the Opposition’ is undemocratic because it doesn’t respect the result of a General Election?

 

What is the difference?

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1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said:

John Mann is no longer a Labour MP and has been given a peerage by Theresa May. Kate Hoey is a fox-hunting Ulster Loyalist who on virtually everything, is closer to Johnson than Corbyn.

 

You still seem to have real problems with the concept of political opposition. If you think that something is wrong you don’t magically believe that it’s right just because others support it. If you think all MPs are obliged to support Brexit because of the 2016 then you must also believe that Jeremy Corbyn should support every Conservative policy since the 2017 election. Do you think that the concept of ‘Leader of the Opposition’ is undemocratic because it doesn’t respect the result of a General Election?

 

What is the difference?

John Mann is still a Labour MP.  Fox hunting has nothing to do with Brexit.

 

The difference is a referendum is a vote about one single issue while a General Election is about numerous issues.  

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4 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

John Mann is still a Labour MP.  Fox hunting has nothing to do with Brexit.

 

The difference is a referendum is a vote about one single issue while a General Election is about numerous issues.  

The point that I was making is that both MPs you mentioned are both pretty vile creatures and in no way typical of the Labour Party.

 

Why should the fact that a vote is about a single issue make any difference? If you think that not supporting Brexit is not respecting the result of the referendum then surely opposing a government which was duly elected is also not respecting the result of the General Election.

 

You can’t have it both ways.

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Still wondering why Labour MPs who voted against the WA are to blame for the current pickle, but Tory MPs who did the same thing get a pass?

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36 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The point that I was making is that both MPs you mentioned are both pretty vile creatures and in no way typical of the Labour Party.

 

Why should the fact that a vote is about a single issue make any difference? If you think that not supporting Brexit is not respecting the result of the referendum then surely opposing a government which was duly elected is also not respecting the result of the General Election.

 

You can’t have it both ways.

You're embarrassing yourself by implying John Mann is a vile creature.  I won't waste time by highlighting the important issues which John Mann has got involved in during his time as a MP.  Your judgement is flawed and bias.

 

The job of the opposition party is to both challenge and support the ruling party regarding different issues where necessary.  The people were asked to decide the single issue regarding our country's membership of the EU and the job of Parliament was to implement the result.  Traditional Labour voters who voted to leave the EU shouldn't have to consider voting for another party at the next General Election because the party they normally support  no longer support the implementation of the democratic 2016 EU referendum vote.

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Just now, Lockdoctor said:

Traditional Labour voters who voted to leave the EU shouldn't have to consider voting for another party at the next General Election because the party they normally support  no longer support the implementation of the democratic 2016 EU referendum vote.

Why shouldn’t they?

 

Are you really suggesting that people should always vote the same way and never change?

 

(btw John Mann is constantly using the subject of antisemitism as a stick to beat his political opponents with. That alone is a pretty vile thing 😡)

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23 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

There’s nothing to debate.

 

 Sometimes I forget that Bercow is a Tory as he doesn’t seem to think that it is his place to act on behalf of the rich and powerful.

Why should he, Its over a decade since the Tories cold shouldered  Bercow a lot of it stems from his Review of Services for Children and Young People in 2008 when Ed Balls was schools secretary, 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

 

 

The job of the opposition party is to both challenge and support the ruling party regarding different issues where necessary.  

no it isnt, ill give you a clue, its in the name, generally both the ruling party and opposition have completely different politics, like the tories and labour do right now, there will never be any support between them

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55 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Why shouldn’t they?

 

Are you really suggesting that people should always vote the same way and never change?

 

(btw John Mann is constantly using the subject of antisemitism as a stick to beat his political opponents with. That alone is a pretty vile thing 😡)

Of course I am not suggesting that people should always vote the same way and never change.  I am stated the issue of implementing  Brexit  after the democratic  people voted in the 2016 EU referendum should not be a reason that traditional Labour voters choose another party to vote for in a General Election.  The Labour Party supported holding the 2016 EU referendum vote and supported triggering Article 50 after the result of the EU referendum and had  a manifesto during the 2017 General Election campaign to implement the EU referendum result.  The Labour Party have practised backsliding and ignored the wishes of regular Labour voters who voted to leave the EU.

 

You should refrain from commenting about John Mann because you continue to embarrass yourself by doing so.

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Could I just point out to those getting excited about the Irish backstop being replaced by an all-Ireland economic entity (‘the border in the Irish Sea’), now that the DUP has become marginalised, that this option is also in breach of the Belfast Agreement.

 

Just as Irish people have the right to see their country as one entity hence no border, the British/Unionist population also have the right to see the North as being an integral part of the United Kingdom therefore no border down the Irish Sea. The Belfast Agreement guarantees ‘parity of esteem’ between both traditions and neither can take precedence over the other. This is why we have peace (at the moment).

 

This was also pointed out during the referendum campaign and again, was dismissed as irrelevant. There really is no solution. You can’t have Ireland in the EU and the North of Ireland outside it with a completely open border. Either Ireland and the UK are both in the EU or they are both out. Leaving the EU was always a completely dumb, unworkable idea.

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19 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

 The Labour Party supported holding the 2016 EU referendum vote and supported triggering Article 50 after the result of the EU referendum and had  a manifesto during the 2017 General Election campaign to implement the EU referendum result. 

and didn't the Tory manifesto promise to deliver a Brexit deal?  A no deal Brexit would be them not fulfilling their manifesto promises and ignoring the wishes of Tory votes.

 

2 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

the Irish backstop being replaced by an all-Ireland economic entity (‘the border in the Irish Sea’), now that the DUP has become marginalised,

 

How quick the government were to throw the DUP to the wolves the moment it became convenient.

Edited by geared

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7 minutes ago, geared said:

How quick the government were to throw the DUP to the wolves the moment it became convenient.

Jeffrey Donaldson was on Politics Live this morning and despite protesting that the DUP were still vital to Johnson’s government, the usual Unionist shoutiness was very subdued. They know that the game is up and at some point they will be put under enormous pressure to accept the ‘border down the sea’ solution.

 

As time goes by, revoking Article 50 will end up being the only solution left. Labour need to jump to being a fully remain party now and ditch Corbyn as he can never credibly lead a Remain Party. Hopefully someone has the stones at this month’s Labour Party conference, to start that particular ball rolling. 

 

Time is running out.

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